The Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot Minneapolis have blamed air traffic controllers in part for the incident, saying controllers violated procedures.
The pilots said in documents filed Nov. 24 with the National Transportation Safety Board that controllers didn’t follow rules and practices contained in the Federal Aviation Administration’s air traffic control manual and didn’t coordinate effectively with Northwest dispatchers.
The pair were out of radio contact for 77 minutes on Oct. 21 as their plane carrying 144 passengers flew more than 100 miles past Minneapolis. The Airbus A320 was over Wisconsin before controllers were able to re-establish contact.
Source: ABC News
By: Arabella-Cox - 18th December 2009 at 18:06
Here’s an interesting blog about the event :
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/11/what-happened-on-northwest-air.html
It will be very interesting to see the outcome of this.
By: Whiskey Delta - 15th December 2009 at 15:52
I’m not familiar with FAA regulations, but according to ICAO Doc 4444 the crew shall make position reports when passing compulsory reporting points, when requested by the appropriate ATS unit or at specified time intervals (every hour or less). Flights may be exempted from these requirements by ATS.
I’m guessing they didn’t use Automatic Dependent Surveillance (ADS) in this case?
There aren’t any compulsory reporting points in the lower 48 states that I’ve ever seen. Maybe a few in the Rocky Mountains. The compulsory reporting points are found where there isn’t any radar coverage but we’re pretty well covered for enroute traffic.
By: Arabella-Cox - 15th December 2009 at 04:36
Like Whiskey Delta says, they should own up. But they are looking for a loophole to get out of it. With a smart lawyer they might. That is the legal system these days. Two wrongs make a right.
By: Primate - 14th December 2009 at 19:54
Anyone know what rules and practices?
I’m not familiar with FAA regulations, but according to ICAO Doc 4444 the crew shall make position reports when passing compulsory reporting points, when requested by the appropriate ATS unit or at specified time intervals (every hour or less). Flights may be exempted from these requirements by ATS.
I’m guessing they didn’t use Automatic Dependent Surveillance (ADS) in this case?
By: Whiskey Delta - 10th December 2009 at 05:39
I think even the pilot community is surprised that these guys weren’t a bit more upfront with what happened especially as they seem to continue to dig themselves in deeper and deeper. 2 things that are a guarantee way to lose your job are 1. Lying and 2. Stealing. If you screw up, admit to it and you end up with more people looking out for you than against you.
By: Ren Frew - 10th December 2009 at 01:41
Is anyone involved in this unfortunate incident allowed to hold their hands up and say “sorry we screwed up, nobody got killed” or is the prevalent blame culture going to rear it’s ugly head, at the expense of someone’s career ? 😮
By: Whiskey Delta - 9th December 2009 at 22:15
No reason for the cabin crew to go into the cockpit unless one of the pilots was coming out.
I take the same round trip flight each week as a passenger and it would take quite a bit more time past the scheduled arrival time to get my attention. There’s enough variation in the flight time due to weather and traffic in any given month that delaying the decent by 20-30 minutes doesn’t surprise me. This crew was out of communications for 77 minutes which doesn’t mean the flight was 77 minutes longer than scheduled. It would get my attention if I saw our destination city below us while we were at cruise but it sounds like that also got the attention of someone in the back which led to the cabin crew calling the pilots repeatedly.
From an early report I read it said this A320 had an older model of CVR that only recorded 30 or so minutes before it started recording over the audio loop. Between the time the crew turned the aircraft around and parked at the gate more than the alloted CVR tape had been used so the audio from the time in cruise had been erased.
By: F35 Lightning - 9th December 2009 at 19:01
Anyone know what rules and practices? Secondly, did the cabin crew not go into the cockpit even once during the 77 minutes? That seems strange. Specially if they were becoming overdue. Surely someone amongst the passengers or cabin would have asked why the flight was taking so long? Some pax are seasoned flyers and know exactly when descent etc is going to commence. I suppose the CVR was erased when they set the parking brake.:confused:
Those were my thoughts exactly :confused:
By: Arabella-Cox - 9th December 2009 at 17:33
…controllers didn’t follow rules and practices contained in the Federal Aviation Administration’s air traffic control manual and didn’t coordinate effectively with Northwest dispatchers.
Anyone know what rules and practices? Secondly, did the cabin crew not go into the cockpit even once during the 77 minutes? That seems strange. Specially if they were becoming overdue. Surely someone amongst the passengers or cabin would have asked why the flight was taking so long? Some pax are seasoned flyers and know exactly when descent etc is going to commence. I suppose the CVR was erased when they set the parking brake.:confused:
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December 9, 2009 at 10:37 am