To Paint, Or Not To Paint

Yes, probably 4 or 5 pax worth of weight on a 747. Maybe more, it was 3 or 4 on a DC10.
Corrosion, I think there is a fine lacquer on to prevent ally-scab.

The real penalty is the butt-ugliness. Unless all the skin panels come from the same batch from the metal mill, you get a different shade, as can quite clearly be seen on their a/c. Working the metal also produces different shades, a flat panel with a single curve (Fuselage) will not have the same shade as a double curve panel off the empennage/nose.
AA used to insist that the inlet L/edges are made from the same batch, especially when there are two lumps hanging off the same wing.

I seem to remember that the first few A300’s that AA got were very splotchy due to the procedures that Airbus was using at the time, therefore they had to be painted. Apparently, no other customer had specified (demanded) bare finish up to that point in time.

The only reason I remember it is that Av. Wk. had a blurb about it and said that the color that AA specified was “Boeing Gray.” Can’t vouch for complete veracity of the original story, but I do remember seeing it in print at the time and thought it was entertaining. 🙂

Airbus apparently came up with a solution, as the AA A300’s are now bare. I also seem to remember that Eastern had painted A300’s, but apparently they didn’t make a big deal out of it with Airbus or in the press (the got them long before AA and allegedly got the first 6 free, maybe they didn’t have any leverage?). I also remember seeing 727-100’s that were painted at Eastern, and asked why and was told by a cohort that they had been polished so many times, the FAA was worried about removing any more material and told them they couldn’t polish them anymore, thus the paint.

Damn… You beat me to it! 😀

Paul

You two have certainly got your priorities right…

Bri :rolleyes:

..and how boring the photo’s on this forum would be.

Damn… You beat me to it! 😀

Paul

So, up to 1000kg – a ton each aircraft. Just think how much fuel that could save if every airliner in the world were unpainted!

Bri 😉

Whilst doing ‘D’ checks on an American Trans Air L1011’s we used to have to polish the bare metal bits. Lower fuselage, flap/slats and engine nose cowls.

Chatting to one of the captains just before delivery, and he estimated that a freshly polished aircraft could save up to 3 tons of fuel on a transatlantic crossing.

So, up to 1000kg – a ton each aircraft. Just think how much fuel that could save if every airliner in the world were unpainted!

Bri 😉

..and how boring the photo’s on this forum would be.

Rgds Cking

So, up to 1000kg – a ton each aircraft. Just think how much fuel that could save if every airliner in the world were unpainted!

Bri 😉

A good indication may be the radome which are composites.

They are composite, but not the CFRP as per panels on the craft. Older radomes were A/c standard fibreglass, they’ve moved on a bit now to PTFE composites…..but still not the structural strength of CFRP. And of course, Mr Radar can see through it!

used to?
There still do. Check Airliners.net for up to date photos.

The weight of the paint depends on the livery. I can’t rememeber the exact figures off the top of my head, but I think a typical livery on a 747-400 is about 750 to 1000kg

With AA aircraft, the metal is protected by a clear lacquer. I’m told it protects the metal as much as a coat of paint would.

The AA FOKKER 100s were just Polished,did not have any clear lacquer over them.
I have a photo off the first US Air being polished at FOKKER,can anyone tell me how i can up load it.
Regards Peter

You have to do it from new. The Air Canada aircraft were old ones stripped for the purpose and looked absolutely horrible. All AA aircraft were delivered new in bare metal and look OK. The AA A300’s were delivered with painted grey because Airbus would not give them a corrosion warranty on a bare metal aircraft. Once the warranty expired AA stripped the aircraft, They won’t look pretty close up! AA has a problem with their 777’s as the fuselage panels are all delivered to Boeing primed. The panel suppliers had to supply un primed ones for their aircraft. If they ever replace a full skin panel they will have to give Boeing plenty of notice to get a bare metal one

Rgds Cking

When they get the plastic, AA will have to paint it grey gloss. As with all CFRP panels next to ally parts now, and indeed on the AA 767 winglets on the picture above.
Maybe somebody will come up with a cheap silver paint, but they haven’t done for X years so why I doubt if they will bother now.

A good indication may be the radome which are composites. You can see in the pic the difference between the radome and fuselage.

Nope its a 763 with winglets you see before you ! 😉 😀

Same horse different jockey

Is that that a 762 with winglets i see before me??

Nope its a 763 with winglets you see before you ! 😉 😀

A.net is awash with them: http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=&airlinesearch=American+Airlines|Braniff+(American+Airlines)|Braniff+International+Airways+(American+Airlines)|Transaero+Airlines+(American+Airlines)&countrysearch=&specialsearch=&daterange=&keywords=&range=&sort_order=&page_limit=15&thumbnails=&calccount=18303&truecount=true&engine_version=6.0
Such as:

Complete with shiny winglets.

Air Canada trialled it also:

I asked a while ago (but noone replied [:dev2:]) about what AA are going to do with regards to their ‘paint scheme’ when they finally get their 787s and the ‘bare metal finish’ will no longer work.

Is that that a 762 with winglets i see before me??

Nothing new there. AA fly A300s with which a bare metal finish also doesn’t work in theory, but looks identical to the rest of the fleet in practice 😉

The A300 is metal.

When they get the plastic, AA will have to paint it grey gloss. As with all CFRP panels next to ally parts now, and indeed on the AA 767 winglets on the picture above.
Maybe somebody will come up with a cheap silver paint, but they haven’t done for X years so why I doubt if they will bother now.

used to?
There still do. Check Airliners.net for up to date photos.

The weight of the paint depends on the livery. I can’t rememeber the exact figures off the top of my head, but I think a typical livery on a 747-400 is about 750 to 1000kg

With AA aircraft, the metal is protected by a clear lacquer. I’m told it protects the metal as much as a coat of paint would.

AA aircraft are polished only, no protective coating. Adding a protective coating would add weight and maintenance requirements, as the protective coating would have to be removed prior to re-polishing and then be reapplied.

If there are areas that need corrosion protection, because the clad coating has been damaged, clear Alodine can be applied.

I asked a while ago (but noone replied [:dev2:]) about what AA are going to do with regards to their ‘paint scheme’ when they finally get their 787s and the ‘bare metal finish’ will no longer work.

Nothing new there. AA fly A300s with which a bare metal finish also doesn’t work in theory, but looks identical to the rest of the fleet in practice 😉

I meant of the “corrosion issues” 🙂

Sorry 😀

Would you have a link to any of those, I have just had a look and couldn’t find any. I am not disputing you – in case you think I am on the attack – just interested, my own curiosity 😀

A.net is awash with them: http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=&airlinesearch=American+Airlines|Braniff+(American+Airlines)|Braniff+International+Airways+(American+Airlines)|Transaero+Airlines+(American+Airlines)&countrysearch=&specialsearch=&daterange=&keywords=&range=&sort_order=&page_limit=15&thumbnails=&calccount=18303&truecount=true&engine_version=6.0
Such as:

Complete with shiny winglets.

Air Canada trialled it also:

I asked a while ago (but noone replied [:dev2:]) about what AA are going to do with regards to their ‘paint scheme’ when they finally get their 787s and the ‘bare metal finish’ will no longer work.

…say, a 747 or 380? As much as three or four more passengers?
Did AA have a penalty with corrosion?

Yes, probably 4 or 5 pax worth of weight on a 747. Maybe more, it was 3 or 4 on a DC10.
Corrosion, I think there is a fine lacquer on to prevent ally-scab.

The real penalty is the butt-ugliness. Unless all the skin panels come from the same batch from the metal mill, you get a different shade, as can quite clearly be seen on their a/c. Working the metal also produces different shades, a flat panel with a single curve (Fuselage) will not have the same shade as a double curve panel off the empennage/nose.
AA used to insist that the inlet L/edges are made from the same batch, especially when there are two lumps hanging off the same wing.

used to?
There still do. Check Airliners.net for up to date photos.

The weight of the paint depends on the livery. I can’t rememeber the exact figures off the top of my head, but I think a typical livery on a 747-400 is about 750 to 1000kg

With AA aircraft, the metal is protected by a clear lacquer. I’m told it protects the metal as much as a coat of paint would.