Number Of Airports Fog Bound This Morning??

T’was actually Doncaster the above divert, but never mind!

Regarding the ILS at LBA being CATIII, this is only at one end of the field – Rwy32. Prevailing conditions when fog occurs usually mean this approach has a tailwind componant, which is usually the jist of the problem, as there is a significant restriction on how much companant you can take. For example a 10 wind tail componant, means you have to have an extra 20knts of airspeed, meaning a higher groundspeed on touchdown. This becomes a limiting factor on any CAT of operation – each company puts it’s own limitation on it.

There are two types of CATIII landings that can achieved at LBA, CATIIIA (RVR200m, Cloudbase 100ft), and CATIIIB (Vis 75m and Cloubase -50ft). This is relative to the systems the aircraft have. I believe the Embraers, Jetstreams and Dash-8s flying into LBA are CATII only due to the lack of autothrottle for the approach, although I may be incorrect on the above.

In order to complete a CATIII approach, as mentioned earlier, you require 3 things. Airfield to be compliant (and available – sometimes the system in U/S), Aircraft to be compliant (again this can be downgraded after normal maintainance work, and required a set number of verification approaches in good weather to confirm the system is fit for service), and a crew to be compliant, which requires expensive simulator training. My previous company had CATII compliant aircraft, but the number of diverts due to weather between CATI and CATII conditions didn’t warrent the cost of training.

Rwy 14 on the otherhand is only CATI for approaches. Given this is when the fog usually occurs it is hardly an ideal situation to have. The reasons for this at the time of 32’s installation all relate to a high than normal 3.5degree glideslope on the ILS (as opposed to 3 degrees – the norm – on 32), and the approach courses path. 32 runs over the bowl of Leeds City, 14 over the hills and high terrain of Otley Chevin. Also (added later) the ILS eqpt may capable of a higher approach certification than it is allowed due to the airfield lighting, which is also required to be certified to enable the higher CAT of operation.

It’s all quite complicated and many people think it’s as simple as CATI, CATII, or CATIII airfields!

Can anyone shed any light on why in the middle of this, this managed to get in where others couldn’t?

WOW484 BRISTOL 1350 LANDED 13:57

I once visited the airport for a behind the scenes tour and we received a talk from the senior controller. Someone asked about problems with fog at LBA and we were informed that LBA has full CAT III facilities, so blind landings are possible. The decision to divert is more often down to airlines procedures, the ability of the pilot flying and the systems fitted to the aircraft. Some airlines won’t land if visibility is less than 100m, some 200m etc. Yesterday’s pilot of the above flight must have been flying within his abilities and within company procedure. Some pilots do circuits waiting for a possible break in cloud before diverting – he may have been lucky and the fog cleared enough to allow an approach.

Just about to dart out, but the above statement isn’t wholly correct – I’ll try and get around to explaining when I get back.

Looks like we picked up one inbound divert of our own this morning from Liverpool:-

FR567 PISA 0800 LANDED 08:31

I flew into LGW yesterday morning and we had to sit on the ground in DUB for an hour while the fog cleared up. Not the best way to kick off a day tip.

Can anyone shed any light on why in the middle of this, this managed to get in where others couldn’t?

WOW484 BRISTOL 1350 LANDED 13:57

I once visited the airport for a behind the scenes tour and we received a talk from the senior controller. Someone asked about problems with fog at LBA and we were informed that LBA has full CAT III facilities, so blind landings are possible. The decision to divert is more often down to airlines procedures, the ability of the pilot flying and the systems fitted to the aircraft. Some airlines won’t land if visibility is less than 100m, some 200m etc. Yesterday’s pilot of the above flight must have been flying within his abilities and within company procedure. Some pilots do circuits waiting for a possible break in cloud before diverting – he may have been lucky and the fog cleared enough to allow an approach.

Im suprised NCL aint diverting as ive just come from there you cant see a thing!!

What are a passenger’s rights when an airline (i.e. Eastern or bmi) instead uses a bus to get them to their destination? I’m sure most travel by air because it is so much quicker. Passengers expecting a flight with Eastern Airways this evening are going to be disappointed, knowing that not only have they paid over-the-odds for their ticket, but now they’re going by road instead, and will be arriving several hours later than they expected.

Force Majour – basically it’s out of the hands of the airlines, and it becomes their discretion as to what service they will offer. Weather Cancellations work slightly differant to re-routing a flight due to a diversion.

Hmm… LBA was certainly under fog last night when I arrived back home on a delayed Jet2 flight from AMS, but just to annoy those of you unlucky enough to be stuck in the UK, here’s what I’m looking at right now from my hotelroom window here on the 12th floor of the SAS Radisson in Copenhagen.

Nice!

Paul

LBA (And the surrounding area) are currently VERY fog bound! Here’s the arrivals board for now, doesn’t make good reading!

BE171 SOUTHAMPTON 0815 CANCELLED
KL1545 AMSTERDAM 0935 Coaches at 12:45
BD412 HEATHROW 0940 Coaches at 13:30
T34701 SOUTHAMPTON 0945 Coaches at 12:30
T34712 ABERDEEN 0945 Coaches at 13:00
BD612 BRUSSELS 1010 CANCELLED
BD494 PARIS CDG 1045 CANCELLED
BD410 EDINBURGH 1210 CANCELLED
TOM1392 ALICANTE 1255 Coaches at 15:30
T34703 SOUTHAMPTON 1305 CANCELLED
AEU918 PALMA 1315 FLIGHT DIVERTED DIVERTED TO MANCHESTER
BD414 HEATHROW 1335 Coaches at 15:00
T34843 INVERNESS 1340 Coaches at 14:15
BE643 EXETER 1400 CANCELLED
BE731 BELFAST CITY 1420 CANCELLED

Can anyone shed any light on why in the middle of this, this managed to get in where others couldn’t?

WOW484 BRISTOL 1350 LANDED 13:57

What are a passenger’s rights when an airline (i.e. Eastern or bmi) instead uses a bus to get them to their destination? I’m sure most travel by air because it is so much quicker. Passengers expecting a flight with Eastern Airways this evening are going to be disappointed, knowing that not only have they paid over-the-odds for their ticket, but now they’re going by road instead, and will be arriving several hours later than they expected.

That unfortunately is just life, and the passengers, like the airlines and everyone else affected when the weather takes a turn for the worst simply have to deal with it. Airlines can’t control the weather, all they can do is try their best to get you to your destination. I would hope the vast majority of passengers are not so narrow minded as to blame the airline if they’re diverted!

Paul

In laymen’s terms all the airline has to do is get you to your final destination, at their expense, sometime!!

They will fly them as far as possible then use a coach to get them to their final destination. For example last night’s Eastern’s into LBA diverted to HUY (sensible, their home base) and then coaches from HUY-LBA

Scott

What are a passenger’s rights when an airline (i.e. Eastern or bmi) instead uses a bus to get them to their destination? I’m sure most travel by air because it is so much quicker. Passengers expecting a flight with Eastern Airways this evening are going to be disappointed, knowing that not only have they paid over-the-odds for their ticket, but now they’re going by road instead, and will be arriving several hours later than they expected.

Now looks like LBA is the main airport for divertions de to fog tonight!

BE175 SOUTHAMPTON 1925 FLIGHT DIVERTED DIVERTED TO MANCHESTER

BE733 BELFAST CITY 1930 CANCELLED

T34716 ABERDEEN 2015 Coaches at 23:30

T34707 SOUTHAMPTON 2025 Coaches at 22:30

BD420 HEATHROW 2155 Coaches at 00:01

LS376 MAHON 0050 EXPECTED 01:38

TOM3194 DALAMAN 0150 EXPECTED 01:29

LS224 TENERIFE 0155 EXPECTED 02:01

The AA flight from ORD-MAN diverted to DUB and I belive we had a TOM divert aswell. FR,EI and LG flights from MAN were all delyaed. I had a poor woman come off an FR flight transferring onto US to PHL-She didnt make it.

We had dense fog here at 4am, tho by now, there is nothing but clear blue skies!

Yeah just had a look at wx, LPL is down to 200m visability and EMA is down to 300m vis so i would think that is below minimums for most a/c to land. Doesnt look like its goin to improve soon either. If ur flyin from either i expect delays and cancellations!