HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

A couple of quick notes.

LHR operates up until 23.59 (midnight) and officially from 6am. It is right that there are a few movements before 6, these are from Asia and so are often 747s. The reason for their exclusion is because of the times they need to fly from Asia and Australasia.

As for Gatwick. It has the most heavily utilised single runway in the world..as a result more flights into there (well before BA’s policy to reduce flights from LGW) was quite difficult.

Richard

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-12-01 AT 11:21 AM (GMT)]Its quite alright for someone to bring up a topic from a while ago,there might be new info on the subject or maybe the person just wants to add their own opinion.At least people are actually replying to the post!!!
Also,i am not sure about the opening times of schiphol but i think that if it open 24 hours a day,then it is probably because most of Schiphol is built on reclaimd land near the sea where there is a small population unlike LHR which has a large city around it.

Regards Saab 2000
Aurigny_360@yahoo.co.uk

Attachments:

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

1) nothing wrong with that
2) thats a bit out of order isn’t it ? heathrow is sorounded by city on 3 sides – therefore it will piss off a lot of people – ideally you buy up a huge area of rural countryside by the sea put the airport there and have a rial link to eveywhere and the approach and takoff over the sea.

rabie :9

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

two things,

1) WHY THE HELL DID SOMEONE BRING UP AN OLD TOPIC FROM JUNE??

2) If I had my way Heathrow would be 24/7 like Schipol!! Or cares about a few elderly residents which who are probably going to pop it anyway!

Andrew M

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

Is LHR allowed to take a few landings outside those hours?… Something around 10?? But these aircraft cannot be anything like the large 747 class aircraft.

The aircraft noise is only a problem with a minority of people though. If you did a survey around LHR, I would say that most people would say they’d got used to the noise.

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

I think they should stop expanding at Heathrow. They stop flying at around 11pm and start at 6am! All that time with no traffic! What a waste, and all because of the people who live around it. There obviously is a problem with LHR and the people in its area so why build terminal 5? Why not get more planes into Gatwick which is far smaller than LHR?!!!
Regards
w_a_s_p_i_e

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

>
>This should have been done a long time ago, the report which
>you mentioned started years ago, about 5 or 6 years ago if
>I’m not mistaked. What on earth does this report contain
>that takes 5 or 6 years to write? It only takes a day at the
>airport to see that there are problems and I’m sure if you
>talked to a few of the controllers, they would let you know
>the scale of this problem.

In reply..

Reports have to take EVERYTHING into account. Starting with issues such as noise, environment etc. But most importantly companies like BAA have to create reports on things like workforce increases and surface access to the airport. There was once a theory (which is inaccurate but a good example), that for every 1million passengers an airport handles then there were 1000 staff, this is the theory that was used for Stansted. So take the 30 million capacity increase due to T5 at LHR, that is another 30 000 staff on top of the 60 000 or so current ones, so housing plans need to be constructed. Bear in mind that these people don’t live at the airport, they all travel to LHR each day and live in the surrounding airport. This may mean potentially another 30 000 homes within half an hour of LHR, and then there may be 4 people in each house, so think of all the new hospitals and schools etc that you would need. On the surface you don’t think about these things when looking at a new proposal, but these are the things that reports take 5 years to write about…and all this is before a planning application is made.

Richard

RE: HETHROW R3

After the approval of T5 the governement has set a limit on aircraft movements per year at the airport and so there would be no ned for a new runway. During the planning process it can take about 6 years of research and report writing before anything is made public so BAA may well have plans to put in an application for a 3rd runway one day..but I wouldn’t hold your breath. After the decision on T5 the current government would not dare allow such a proposal to go ahead as it would be political suicide. Anyway, it took 15 years from the start of work on a new T5 to the recent decision and the BAA could expect the decision on a new runway to be just as drawn out. Compare this to Manchester where approval was received in 2 years or so, but that’s because Manchester Airport are put in a better application, and took a lot more factors into account than BAA did for T5.

It’s all a nice theory though. Whilst some may say that Heathrow is very inefficient (which is currently true) I think that after T5 opens then people should watch out as LHR could become a much more efficient airport with less inter-terminal transfers. Infact the issue should now be what plans do BAA have for the central terminal complex, not about a new runway.

There has long been a proposal for a new runway in the south east. If it were to be built at LHR then you are looking at putting a runway through the centre of a village…not very popular! As for LGW and a new runway there..well there is a legally binding contract saying that no new runway will be built there until after 2019..so again, don’t hold your breaths.

Richard

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

As Saab2000 has said, we do have Runway 23, but this is only used approximately once a year. We need to have an average crosswind of 25kts before we can ‘activate’ it, which requires lots of aircraft in T4 to be relocated to other stands. This is meant to take about 3 hours, but in reality takes longer. Using 23 also slows down to whole operation of the airfield, so the movment rate of 80ish an hour would decrease to maybe 60 an hour.

Adam.

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

Yes it does already have a 3rd runway, which is runway 23.It is rarely used except in 35+ knots winds from the south- west.The new runway would be in use most of the time.
regards Saab 2000

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

Doesn’t Heathrow already have a 3dr runway that. I’m sure Heathrow has the two large ones, and then has a smaller one which can only be used from 1 side. Shaun

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

BAA has called on the CAA to increase airline charges to help fund Heathrow’s Terminal 5 which requires some 2 billion pounds of investment if, as expected,planning permission is granted later this year.
regards Saab 2000

P.S would Terminal 5 just be used for BA flights or would it be used be other airlines?

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

there is a new duel carridge way and a near by rail way line all the way to manston, but lydd is is in at wrong end of a marsh accsesable by a goods rail track or a lot of winding lanes (ie not a 5th london airport option). manston is the most likley for more planes. also biggin hill is taking more biz jetc, etc.

rabie :9

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

Dcfly,

>>I was’nt talking about near misses at Heathrow , I was talking about near misses in the air space around London<<

Understood, and yet the following in your previous post…

>>i frequent LHR and LGW quite often and have seen one or two near misses<<

Anyway,

>>besides, if you “work” at Heathrow how would you know whats going on every minute of the day<<

I know when anything major happens because the first thing I do when I reach my place of “work” is to look through the Air Traffic Control Log Book to see what’s happened on my rest days. I usually hear before that because I live with two fellow Air Traffic Controllers and we gossip often!

The recent report that was published on the incident last year has resulted in a feeding frenzy in the press, in particular the Mirror which had a front page story with a headline ’40ft from carnage’ referring to a missed approach I saw from the tower, the report could not have been further from the truth.

Apologies if this seems blunt, Dcfly, but I get a bit annoyed when the press start spouting nonsense!

Regards,

Ad.

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

I was’nt talking about near misses at Heathrow , I was talking about near misses in the air space around London,besides, if you “work” at Heathrow how would you know whats going on every minute of the day,if the national newspapers are to be believed theres been two or three in the last couple of years.I’m an aircraft enthusiast and have been for quite a few years but I still dont agree with three runways or a fifth terminal,but then thats only my opinion.

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

I would say, no more expansion in LHR. It´s too big, congested, noisy and inefective. High speed trains need to be promoted in order to reduce the short and medium haul flights, the airlines have to understand that passengers don´t enjoy hub policies and prefer devoloping secondary regional (Birmingham, Manchester, East Midlands….)hubs despite not being so profitable and on the other way London aera has many other locations to distribute the traffic. I know it won´t be popular among airlines, but enlarging LHR will be a big problemn. The main problemn……too congested skies, no space available to locate more aircraft and this will mean narrower gaps between planes. I get concerned everytime I have to fly LHR. More imaginative is needed. In Germany MUC was promoted. In Paris a new third airport is planned and iN Spain two alternatives airports will be built arround MAD which will be closed in 2025.

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

When JER and GCI lost there Heathrow routes a group was created to safe guard air routes to the 5 main london airports.As an alternative to heathrow the groups thought that RAF Northolt was an alternative.Many people also started going to Zurich,CDG,Orly and Sciphol.As an alternative to the extremely over crowded london airports,airports such as Lydd and Manston are an option instead of heathrow.I know that each has rail and motorways close to them.

regards Saab 2000

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

Dcfly,

I’d be very interested to know what ‘near-misses’ you’ve seen at Heathrow, particularly as I work there!

Ad.

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

Your solution would be a good one in theory but the main problem is that airlines want to fly into Heathrow, Gatwick is a second option and Luton and Stansted are too far away from London centre.

RE: HETHROW RUNWAY THREE

Personally I think the air traffic around London should be evenly distributed between the four main airports i.e.LHR,LGW,STA,and LTN .There have been to many near misses, the consequences of a mid air collision above London are to horrific to imagine .i frequent LHR and LGW quite often and have seen one or two near misses, so , no I dont agree with a third runway at LHR or a fifth terminal but I would like to see a second runway at LGW ,if nothing else,to ease the heavy traffic at LHR