Towing banners and the CAA

PLeased to read that other Wilgas fly in the uk.

Is it really, what happened to the one at Sywell that i flew last week then????:rolleyes:

G-INFO shows four Wilgas on the register (apart from the a/c involved in the accident), can’t vouch for them all being airworthy.

Planemike

My understanding has always been that banner towing requires a skilled pilot and that the main problem is likely to be drag caused by the banner rather than any problem in lifting the weight of the banner but I am not a pilot so maybe I have misunderstood.
It is good to see that the two occupants of the Wilga escaped even though they were injured but the section below taken from the CAA regulations does make me wonder what the leader of the UKIP was doing aboard the aircraft unless he is a qualified pilot with the appropriate experience to assist in the banner towing operation.

(6) No person other than crew members directly involved in conducting banner tow operations shall be carried on board the aircraft involved in towing a banner

No doubt all will be revealed after the CAA investigation.

Banner towing training courses are available in the UK, it is a skill, which of course applies to many variations of aircraft use.

A shame that the last flying Wilga in the UK is no more and a relief that the crew escaped.

Is it really, what happened to the one at Sywell that i flew last week then????:rolleyes:

GrahamF

At this very moment some idiot is flying around London in a helicopter towing a flag about the size of a football pitch. Has this flag been calibrated and checked out by the CAA and is acceptable for this design of aircraft?

What makes the pilot an idiot ?

On what basis do you assume the CAA do not find this acceptable ?

Is it not a tad harsh to criticise without citing any evidence other than what appears to be an opinion ?

What type of aircraft was it ? And what exactly makes it (to use your terms) uncalibrated or unchecked out ?

Ah well, I tried.

Regards,

kev35

Thats handy, I see the comment that I referred to has disappeared from the board in the last hour.:confused:

Malcolm

I deleted my earlier post because of your astute observation that the regulation flagged up by Kev35 was from T&T and not UK CAA which I had failed to notice.

Tim

Thats handy, I see the comment that I referred to has disappeared from the board in the last hour.:confused:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1995/Uksi_19952943_en_1.htm

here’s the UK statute that allows banner towing

Kev35, please re-read my post.
You found your evidence of regulation (albeit from Trinidad & Tobago) – the gist of this thread.
Its the drawing of attention to a specific point within those regulations that I comment on.

Regards
Malcom

Malcom.

I haven’t speculated on anything whatsoever. I merely tried to find some evidence that the activity of banner towing is regulated. I wouldn’t presume to speculate on a cause.

Regards,

kev35

Scotavia -there is a glider towing example based at Lyveden which is still airworthy.

Any point in quoting Carribean regs when speculating on a UK incident?

Banner towing training courses are available in the UK, it is a skill, which of course applies to many variations of aircraft use.

A shame that the last flying Wilga in the UK is no more and a relief that the crew escaped.

Graham – I am nearly forty and can only remember one incident in my life (this morning) involving an aircraft banner towing ! Bearing in mind that banner towing has been around for years and the aircraft that do it tend to be either historic or older than the museum prototype Eurofighters that grace this column -be prepared to move into the abysis of the GA section!

Not so. I forget the details, but I knew the pilot of a banner towing aircraft operating out of Goodwood. This was probably late 1980’s or early 1990’s. He crashed into the sea off the IOW as a result of issues with the banner-tow, I believe. He was luckily rescued by a nearby boat although quite badly hurt – to the extent that the poor chap died some years later as a result of complications arising later out of his injuries. I am pretty sure the aircraft was owned by Xtangomike who might be able to confirm that my memory is not at fault?

there is quite a lot of un educated prosumptions going on here

first off i believe little the press say unless i witness it with my own eyes !!

for strarters the reports of it being wraped around the tail or going into the engine simply do not weigh up to me

unless tangled at take off it seems highly unlikeley if it took off untangled for it to become tangled

however there were reports of several low passes being done by request of the passenger

the banner becomming tangled in a ground object seems a more likely scenario

also we have to considder the fact helis are used for load lifting abilitys

in scotland as 350’s are used for fish transfers with large underslung fish tanks
as far as i know this opperation type has only resulted in one accident

( ironicaly the cause was put down to the hook and cable being left extended with no load and low flying over water )

causing the hook to bounce off the water surface and smash the tail rotor

if you compare a silk or light material banner with a lead hold down weight

to a tank of water with fish the weight is poles apart so an easy lift for a heli

too much is at stake if they do not do correct calculations

and i’d imagine the biggest percentage of pilots are selected from ex millitary personell

specialised in either target towing or load lifting !!

course things can go wrong there always will be mechanical and human factors to add to the mix

but any form of flying is complex and dangerous that’s why as many failsafes as possible are looked into before you leave the ground !!

It would be very useful if London was in the Carribean.;)

Might this help?

http://caa.gov.tt/media/Safety%20Regulations/TTCAR%20No.%2011/F-TTCAR%2011-PART%20IV%20Amd%202009.pdf

A nano-second on Google produced this.

Regards,

kev35

How does one calibrate a flag?

Nothing in life is risk free – it would be a very boring world if it was!