Afghan pictures let the military down again

– the trick is – not to get caught ; )

Precisely!

“Mountains and molehills”.

Agreed John…non story really.
If I had just been in a hot firefight – I would probably take some snaps,natural enough thing to do really !
We have all done naughty things in the past – the trick is – not to get caught ; )

However, I think we should also think what this may look like from a different perspective; how would we feel if this was, for example, a photograph of a dead British soldier with, say, an Argentine soldier giving the ‘thumbs-up’?

Exactly.

In WWII US military photographers were allowed free range to photograph any dead Japanese they could find, but not the faces of dead German or Italian troops. Why? Because they might have family in America!
I’ve seen photo’s of dead British pilots from WWI, as well as the obligatory hanging from barbed wired image, although mainly they were not identifiable. British troops were forbidden from taking their own cameras to France (it didn’t stop a few from doing so, though), whereas German troops were encouraged to bring their expensive cameras despite the immense cost of film and processing.
Very few of British/Commonwealth dead from WWII were snapped, the Dieppe raid and the occasional bomber crew alongside the wreckage of the aircraft being exceptions I can think of.
German photographers snapped their own dead almost as much as they did dead Russians, mainly on the Eastern front.
Not seen much from Korea, but Vietnam was the one where nearly every US soldier had a camera and the opportunity to show those at home what their war was like and what was important to them – friends, scenes and the locals, dead or alive. Up until now the vast majority of pictures had been taken by professionals, but cameras, processing and film were all cheap enough for the lowly soldiery to participate.
I’ve not seen many ‘personal’ photos from British soldiers in the Falklands, certainly not ones involving enemy dead, which goes with all the other more recent conflicts too – the shriveled head of the Iraqi truck driver from the 1991 Gulf War was taken by a professional…

Shock outrage over one insurgent. I wonder what the reaction would be had it been the other way around?

Remember the deceased chopper crew and their two Delta Force defenders who were dragged around Mogadishu in 1993? Imagine the resentment and horror in the media had they been British – don’t tempt fate by giving lame thumbs ups and big grins to the camera whilst posed next to your dead foes…

“Mountains and molehills”.

Shock outrage over one insurgent. I wonder what the reaction would be had it been the other way around? There are at least 453 to choose from if you can find enough bits!

I support ALL our military 100% even those who may be considered a little unwise. Don’t forget most were just kids who had to grow up fast and end up seeing and doing things that would turn most peoples stomachs.

Well that’s inevitable as is the fact that the military have to waste time investigating it. None of us would have been any the wiser if they hadn’t been stupid enough to photograph it or at least make damn sure the photos were secure!! That’s the problem.

Much ado about nothing.

It only seems to be the media making a fuss about it……………… As usual 😡

Indeed and a good thing there was no internet when Tommy Atkins was around.

I suggest you read “Tommy,” written by Rudyard Kipling in 1892.

I agree. But message to stupid servicemen – if you must photograph the incident don’t be surprised if it finds its way into the public domain and receives the inevitable reaction.

Just watched Col Bob Stewart sounding highly unimpressed by the incident.

Falklands to present date I’ve seen plenty of bodies, body bagged most and dragged them up the cliffs at Newquay…….never felt the need to take photos of any of them, took long enough to get the images out of my head, why would I want to be reminded of someones dearly beloved, broken at the bottom of a cliff?.

However, none of them were shooting at me, just 10 minutes earlier and trying blow up everything/everyone in sight and that for me is the difference.

Photographs like this have been taken on the battlefield since Gettysburg, they become an important (historic) record of victor and vanquished, in 150 years time we will still be killing each other, still taking photos of the outcome and still bitching that, if you look hard enough on the internet, you could still be offended looking at the results. You have the freedom of choice, look at it, don’t look at it, this is what these lads are fighting for. Its a non-story on a slow news day to stir up emotions against our armed forces. Get over it.

TonyT

Doesn’t let anyone down in my eyes, sorry you send people to kill people on your behalf you have to accept those people will have there own ways of dealing with it, so he’s giving thumbs up, 10 minutes before that stiff was trying to kill him, so thumbs up to the virgins he is now enjoying and one hopes he finds they’re all ugly …

I will go along with TonyT, nothing to see here, lock it bin it.

Baz

Who shouldn’t go to war; the British as a whole nation?

Re 3

If you’re squeamish about matters such as this, don’t go to war. This has been going on for years, even in my day it happened. As long as there is war it will go on. The public have become wusses.

I see this thread going the same way as the other did a while ago regarding our troops…

I thought that other thread was actually a fairly healthy debate…..did it get locked in the end?

I know the average soldier is not blessed with much intellect – he would not be an average soldier if he was…

The average British soldier is also very young…..and of a generation that photograph almost everything!

I see this thread going the same way as the other did a while ago regarding our troops.Keeping out of it this time.

I suppose it really boils down to the stupidity of the photo being taken. Celebrate if they feel the need but don’t record it for posterity. I know the average soldier is not blessed with much intellect – he would not be an average soldier if he was, but you’d have thought they had a smidgen of common sense.
Current sensibilities being what they are this story is unlikely to die quickly.

I’ve mixed thoughts about this one. Initially I didn’t think there was a case to answer.

Does the fact that this British soldier took the photograph make his enemy, the Taliban fighter, any more or less dead? Did it have any influence on the engagement at all? No, certainly not.

Plus, I’m not squeamish about what warfare inevitably entails and, in a way, I think it is a good thing that the British public are aware of some of the reality of what the British Forces have to deal with, in their name.

However, I think we should also think what this may look like from a different perspective; how would we feel if this was, for example, a photograph of a dead British soldier with, say, an Argentine soldier giving the ‘thumbs-up’?

In your eyes Tony and no doubt others ex, in or close to the military, but not the majority of the public. And there’ll be plenty ogling the gruesome images Snafu thoughtfully provided the reference for. War is dirty, messy and bloody but the realities of it are no longer acceptable fodder.

Doesn’t let anyone down in my eyes, sorry you send people to kill people on your behalf you have to accept those people will have there own ways of dealing with it, so he’s giving thumbs up, 10 minutes before that stiff was trying to kill him, so thumbs up to the virgins he is now enjoying and one hopes he finds they’re all ugly …