Have we lost our working rights?

Moggy

Frankly I would imagine the indigenous workers could not care less about the viability of some poor employer who can only survive if the workers accept a pittance for pay.

The argument that employers will have to go under if forced to pay a living wage is typical Tory propaganda, no more than an excuse to perpetuate the exploitation of unskilled labour.

The only thing uttered by any Tory that I agree with is “work must pay better than benefits” sadly in Tory double speak what this really means is starve benefit claimants into any job at any price, not that workers should be able to earn a living wage.

We are seeing the biggest and fastest rise in homelessness and people applying for food bank tokens, I suppose all those people are bone idle and happily living on benefits.

C H
Where I live the local growers used to employ a good number of full time workers, last figures I’ve seen gave a figure of 3,000+ with a large number of seasonal and part time workers, go round these local growers now and finding someone with English as a first language is a novelty, many of of these growers look like 4th rate caravan sites housing agency workers, or low cost housing is bought up then filled with immigrant workers, in many cases the growers have simply handed the job of finding staff to agencies and gangmasters and employ very few people direct.

This keeps local wages low, abuses ALL workers and denies even the opportunity for locals to get jobs in the farming/horticultural industry.

Did read one breath of reality from a farmer who was struggling to find full time workers with experience, because as he put it, in the past we have always found people with the ability to learn and progress from our own staff, that simply doesn’t happen now and we (farmers) are to blame, we must employ more local workers to fill full time positions.

With restricted borders, employers would have no choice but to increase wages / decrease hours to attract the staff they want.

Which would inevitably put up the price of their good placing them at a competitive disadvantage. This being the case they would face the choice of going out of business or exporting the jobs to a low wage economy. Neither of these options would benefit indigenous workers even slightly.

..when one has to sit by a phone all day waiting for a call

Even those on benefits seem able to afford at least one cellphone per person these day so ‘sitting by the phone’ is a thing of the past

Moggy

Hampden – thanks for responding. Out of interest were you employed on minimum wage or above or below?

Trump, I suspect that there is a degree of truth in the last part of your last paragraph but IF the population who can work DO work then the immigrants wouldn’t come, or at least not in the numbers they do, as I have suggested several times earlier. The problem is that there is an ingrained culture here of living off the state and a core of the population who could easily work but cannot be bothered because they are as well off or better off not working.

I have worked for two companies in the past four years. One expected me to work `as many hours as required` to get the job finished. The other 36 hours when quite clearly I was expected to work more.
What I object to is not the attitude of the employer but not being upfront at interview that is what is expected.
If the employer says `I expect long hours without pay` I can make the decision to accept the job. But it’s not fair once I have accepted to place that burden on me.
Incidentally one of the employers employed mostly immigrant workforce (Polish, Easter European) who will work any hours as they have no choice.
I’m not complaining about hard work just a fair rate for a fair days work.
As a comparison in the eighties I worked for a British company. I worked 12 hour days and sometimes Saturday and Sunday but the difference is I was asked and paid
overtime. Double time for Saturday, Treble time for Sunday. Needless to say it was hard to find a slot to work the hours!

I’m not in

If the immigrants are all working where you work, what is the problem? At least they are not sponging off benefits like so many of our own citizens.

I know personally of 2 people who have put in for jobs they have been doing part time extremely well and have either been turned down [even though they are already doing it very very well under agency and part time] or made redundant–they are looking for work and don’t want to be on benefits.
I wonder how many of these people who are queuing up at the dole office really want to be there.

There does seem to be this culture that immigrants are good and work hard and our own are dossers ,that in itself is a generalisation.

My point being ,don’t let immigrants in UNTIL the population who can work DO work,then you can dig into the lazy want to do ****** all types.Many good people who want to work are being hurt by cheap immigrant labour.

When it gets to much, and you feel it’s all getting unaffordable, rob a bank, if you succeed your sorted for life, if you fail well you go to the front of the NHS queue, have 3 square meals a day, heated room, and a TV .

Well that’s a plan……;)

I would guess that 30% of where i work are immigrants and no i haven’t counted ,just everyday experience.
Parts of my village are Eastern European heavy,walk round our supermarket and you will see/hear just how many there are.

Charlie ,i do wonder if you are in denial,maybe you are lucky and live in an area which isn’t affected.

I’m not in anything, Trump. I try to deal with the world as I find it. I am sceptical of sweeping generalisations and suggest that, conversely, perhaps your experience is not typical of many other areas of the country. No one has yet offered me any evidence for the assertions made.

If the immigrants are all working where you work, what is the problem? At least they are not sponging off benefits like so many of our own citizens.

I am not saying that there is not a problem. I am trying to put such problems as exist in perspective.

Been self employed most of my life, Linc so when I could have invested I never thought about it and when I thought about it I was too old for any meaningful contributions to make any sense. My own fault….

When it gets to much, and you feel it’s all getting unaffordable, rob a bank, if you succeed your sorted for life, if you fail well you go to the front of the NHS queue, have 3 square meals a day, heated room, and a TV .

I would guess that 30% of where i work are immigrants and no i haven’t counted ,just everyday experience.
Parts of my village are Eastern European heavy,walk round our supermarket and you will see/hear just how many there are.

Charlie ,i do wonder if you are in denial,maybe you are lucky and live in an area which isn’t affected.

Is that the case or is it hearsay? I asked for examples/evidence for is assertion but as yet no reply.
What is the percentage of people, immigrants or otherwise working and existing as you describe?
And how many bosses fit the stereotype you drew in your last sentence?

People slag off unions ,but unions have fought [ well the members] to give conditions of service and fair pay.Nowadays as posted by the OP it seems normal to be contracted to certain hours [well paid for certain hours] but be there longer.

Immigrants work long hours for little pay ,exploited -yes but they are grateful as it is better than where THEY came from..Immigrants live many to a house ,ship money back over seas.
The downside is because they are willing to do this our own kids will have to do the same which means they wont get their feet on the mortgage ladder and thus little income means little expenditure which means less taxes being paid and more benefits being paid out.
Low pay= low moral= poor workmanship = a miserable country.

The only people benefiting are the bosses who are doing their utmost to keep people as close to third world country conditions as they can.

Been self employed most of my life, Linc so when I could have invested I never thought about it and when I thought about it I was too old for any meaningful contributions to make any sense. My own fault….:(

Oh come off it Chas, a chap with your acumen would have invested in a Private/works Pension?

Jim.
Lincoln .7

Yes I am beginning to see the attraction – but with only the state pension I can’t afford it!!

Oh the joys of being retired………….:rolleyes:
Jim.
Lincoln .7

This is one of many reasons why the EU superstate doesn’t work. With restricted borders, employers would have no choice but to increase wages / decrease hours to attract the staff they want.

Both employers and employees expect too much these days.

And what about the “Zero” hrs, when one has to sit by a phone all day waiting for a call telling you that you are needed, “Right now”.
Not much of a life is that, is it?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Your first paragraph dovetails with another thread running here. Have you evidence to support your assertion in the second paragraph?