"Pay Cash" to tradesmen – no crime but no VAT receipt – hmmmmmm

It’s almost funny to have politicians, mostly millionaires who employ accountants to minimise their tax liabilities, criticise the black economy.

Paying a gratuity in a restaurant is covered by HMRC and ideally all gratuities are taxable……..etc

We are all I hope capable of Googling the relevant legislation.

I prefer to live in the real world 😉

We must respect that the dwindling world economy and economic recessionary effect is putting additional burdens on the UK government.

I don’t respect those who are causing that dwindling economy. Seriously, upper level government officials and bankers ARE thieves whenever they vote for new ways to take away that which hard working people have managed to earn. If I spent more than I took in, I’d be ill-thought of and eventually no one else would let me borrow from them, and for sure, my employees wouldn’t give me extra money. However, if some politician decides we need a new place to spend money, we just blink and accept it.

That may be what the ‘pay cash’ tradesmen offer NO GUARANTEE/WARRANTY

That may be what the ‘pay cash’ tradesmen offer NO GUARANTEE/WARRANTY

Here today, gone tomorrow – no trace as no documents.

Guarantee/Warranty what’s that ?????
“I do job – you pay cash – no proof I did job. I can do another ‘pay cash’ job to fix the problem if you like!!!!!:D

no income tax no vat no money back no guarantee……

Significant difference – a gratuity in a restaurant v paying tradesmen cash (no docs)

Paying a gratuity in a restaurant is covered by HMRC and ideally all gratuities are taxable.

In fact many restaurants ask that the gratuity if being paid by the customer be added at the end of the Debit/Credit Card authorisation.
All gratuities are supposedly then shared out equally amongst eligible members of staff.

If the payment of the gratuity is made in cash directly to the person providing the service the person receiving the gratuity must by HMRC law declare the total in their HMRC returns or by notifying the HMRC by letter.

Many employers have been known to advise the HMRC that staff receive gratuities and that they as employer do not have an organised method of tracking the gratuities individual staff members receive. The employer usually will be advised by HMRC to notify all employees of the necessity to declare the gratuities they receive in annual form to HMRC in concurrence with Personal Income Tax returns or by letter.

The payment of gratuities is relatively low in restaurants(unless like some billionaires the gratuity amounts to £1000s in exclusive clubs and restaurants) in comparison to the topic of this thread, of payments in cash to tradesmen unsupported by necessary documentation which usually collectively amounts to a lot more in comparison to gratuities in an average restaurant.

Both gratuities and payment to tradesmen are fully covered on the HMRC web site and are covered by legislation.

If you go into a restaurant, and give the waiter or waitress a tip, do you really expect them to declare it ?

I certainly wouldn’t.

Surely this isn’t about Income Tax or VAT thresholds …

Surely this isn’t about Income Tax or VAT thresholds … The payment method by cash is not illegal if supported by the documents in the post when I opened this thread.

As a sole trader there are Income Tax returns to be filed and VAT returns (if providing services that are VAT chargeable to the client/customer) to be filed.

The VAT threshold isn’t significant but the VAT Input Output equation or calculation definitely is.
This can be reasoned out with HMRC by keeping good accounts or accurate/honest book keeping.

A sole trader can become eligible for a VAT refund from HMRC in many cases if the VAT outgoings are higher than the legitimate VAT income on paid invoices

It is easy to call the HMRC various names and yes it may seem that in our opinions many deserving and essential national resources are becoming drastically under funded and it is a spate of politicians from all parties that are responsible for the poor decisions.

We must respect that the dwindling world economy and economic recessionary effect is putting additional burdens on the UK government.

There’s an awful lot of tradesmen who don’t even begin to approach the
£77,000 VAT threshold.

I remember that going back about £35 years, my Brother in law wanted
some new sills welded onto his Triumph Spitfire. Chap who did it told him it
was £25, or £20 for cash. His full time job was working for the income tax.

Whenever I do work for people, I always leave it up to them as to how they
want to pay. Most want to pay cash. Either way it costs them the same.

Can I add the Dept for Transport Shared Services Centre. Millions over budget, will never save a penny of the predicted amounts and absolutely awful to attempt to use.

A few years ago my missus wanted some fitted wardrobes built. I called a local firm who sent a young chap round to measure up and quote for the job. He took the measurements, tapped away on his calculator and then came up with a price of £1730. I asked him what it would be if I paid cash up front. He tapped away on the calculator again and came up with another price, £2330!! No, I don’t understand that one either.

Some people will always dodge taxes, but realistically if you want the majority to pay up, you’ve got to show them you are being sensible with their money. The government p1sses it away. A good quote from Dan Hannan on this is quite appropriate, “there’s two types of money, there’s your money and there’s my money. The trouble with the European Union is it’s all your money”, though obviously it applies to all levels of government. How can you ask a builder on 17k to cough up, by force, for some 30k civil servant who does far less work than him, whilst taking home nearly twice as much. It’s simply morally wrong. Then there’s the defenders of the public service, these people tend to prove my point for me. They say “oh so you don’t need doctors, nurses, teachers, policement, firemen, ambulance…”, my response of course is that those are all very valuable workers and we’ll keep them… and fire the ones you’ve not listed, since by not mentioning them they probably aren’t that valuable.

Diversity Officers – £42,470 – £48,510 😮
Performance Manager
Performance Officer
Intelligence Officer (not national security!)
Change Officer
Senior Change Manager
Senior Performance and Research Officer (Intelligence) (not national security!)
Tenants Involvement and Development Officer.
Smarter Workplaces Programme Manager
Seasonal Personal Travel Plan Advisers
Laughter Yoga Teacher
Climate Change Officers
Political Assistants
Diversity Talent Executive
Change Project Portfolio Manager £43,368

Birmingham city council employs 28 diversity officers for about £2 million!

…. and you expect people to pay their taxes, too funny 😀

that NHS computer system has been developed about 5 times, always with the same failures. Talk about repeating mistakes……

There are some fascinating stories about dodgy NHS computer project costs and dealings I could share…….. like the one about one of the outsourced companies doing the work billing the NHS for the towels used by consultants who went jogging at a lunchtime…….

When the Govt. of the day starts investing taxpayers cash in sensible, practical and workable projects rather than billions – yes, it’s always billions never millions – for the development costs of NHS computer systems, early warning aircraft, radio communications for the Armed Forces, all of which have never worked in any realistic and acceptable way and have since been abandoned (add your own to this list) then I will cease my rather puerile attempts at supporting the black economy.

When the Govt. of the day wishes to sanction ‘backhanders’ to this Middle East regime or that in pursuance of some trade deal or another, presumably that is ok? Of course. It is maintaining British workmen in British jobs. Well, so am I and hundreds of thousands of others.

John Green

When the government get to grips with the real tax dodgers, possibly their concerns about a plumber getting a few cash jobs may be considered.

As an ex Antique & Car dealer I have always preferred dealing , both buying & selling , in coin of the realm or its paper equivalent . Transactions always flowed much easier that way.
I do have plastic but its so slow — I’ve been behind poor people , at the checkout , who have no money . They pay for a newspaper & a pack of sandwiches with a card . This usually take 3 days –I’m 67 & dont
have that long –i have things to do !!!!

I fill my car up & bung the cashier £80.00 in folding . I always state ” No receipt thank you, I’m trying to save a rain forest “

Yes and this advice comes from someone who used to be a professional tax dodger.

I guess this means that I should stop paying my local newsagent with coins?

As soon as the government stops nicking expenses and stealing cash from people I’ll listen to them. Until then they can all depart swiftly.

Just like the old American motto . ” In God we trust , everybody else pays cash.”