Ryanair: cheap but…not cheerful… and safety?

Gary O, do you work for FR? I don’t understand how supplying you with such information will assist you in finding possibly restricted information, such as a report into what communication was made between the Senior Cabin member, Flight Deck crew and their OPS Centre (including maintenance team/s).

Agreed. Not possible

The toilets are fitted with a smoke detector, therefore the question is: the device was in working order?:dev2:

It should be working, but maybe, just possibly it may not have been, as crew, we’re trained to check this when reporting on duty (our PDI – Pre-Departure Inspections) so it should very well have been working

D.Gould, PIK based crew

(Btw, FR7846 and FR7342 are both operated by PIK based crew)

Well, all international connections in my tiny airport, are carried by Ryanair, except the CDG one by Vueling, so I have to use the airline quite frecuently. All the times I flew them, they gave the announcements in English and Spanish, or English Spanish and Italian in the case of the Ciampino one, or English, Spanish German in the Hahn one.

In all the flights they had local flight attendants to help with any language problem. Even in the domestic connection to Valencia, most flight attendants are Spanish, or have a good level of the language involved.

What I have percieved about the airline, is that approaches and landing are too quick sometimes. I wonder if it has to do with the hassle of the 25 minutes stopover.

As the Senior Cabin Crew member said to me (he is a friend) he had reported the issue to the Captain, the Captain reported the issue and they were told to continue with the flight (which by the way had already been delayed by 4 hours) by their OPS department. I can’t confirm if the engineers were informed, but, locally FR don’t have any of their own at EGHH (they use an external company).

I thought the Captain was the responsible person? If it was unsafe/in breach of regs to fly without offloading pax, why did the Capt not offload pax??

Surely this is a case where Ops need to be in the loop, but the actual discretion lies with the Capt.

Hello Kimberly,

I agree with your point with the lack of communication between the crew & ops/maintenance,i should have made that clear in my reply above,and yes i work in ryanair maintenance control.I’d would hope that the crew know better to ring maintrol rather than ops with a tech issue!:eek: :rolleyes:,and the info would allow me to look further into the situation.

Not having are own engineers on site isnt a problem,we have an extensive list of local contacts that we can use(other airlines for example).

on a side note glad to hear the A380 training is going ahead,lot of rumours about VS cancelling the A380 order;)

I would not worry about VS and any gossip about our Airbus A380’s – while we have had issues with Airbus, we remain greatly happy with the A380 idea as a whole. (gosh Im great at sitting on the fence)

Kimberly Richmond-Jones

Hello Kimberly,

I agree with your point with the lack of communication between the crew & ops/maintenance,i should have made that clear in my reply above,and yes i work in ryanair maintenance control.I’d would hope that the crew know better to ring maintrol rather than ops with a tech issue!:eek: :rolleyes:,and the info would allow me to look further into the situation.

Not having are own engineers on site isnt a problem,we have an extensive list of local contacts that we can use(other airlines for example).

on a side note glad to hear the A380 training is going ahead,lot of rumours about VS cancelling the A380 order;)

reply

I appreciate the situation you found yourself in with this flight,unfortunately without the exact date/times/IAA notice dates,it would be very difficult to comment on the exact nature of the communication between the flight crew & engineers.

All i will say is that if the engineers are notified of a problem(which in some cases isnt always the case),they have no problem in sitting an aircraft down & delaying up to 189 pax + knock ons.All we are concerned about is safety.

With this is particular case,perhaps there was a communication issue with the crew.

Gary O, do you work for FR? I don’t understand how supplying you with such information will assist you in finding possibly restricted information, such as a report into what communication was made between the Senior Cabin member, Flight Deck crew and their OPS Centre (including maintenance team/s).

As the Senior Cabin Crew member said to me (he is a friend) he had reported the issue to the Captain, the Captain reported the issue and they were told to continue with the flight (which by the way had already been delayed by 4 hours) by their OPS department. I can’t confirm if the engineers were informed, but, locally FR don’t have any of their own at EGHH (they use an external company).

The point stands the aircraft should have either not left the ramp with such an InOp issue, or have off loaded a certain amount of PAX.

I do think you are right, there could have been a communication issue, but I don’t think it’s between the crew, I think the issue stands between the crew and FR’s OPS/maintenance department, something our pilot’s seem to chat about quite a lot.

In reply to Blue Robin:

I work for Virgin Atlantic on our Airbus A343, A346 & Boeing 744. I am also currently training on the A380’s (ready for her introduction).

Kimberly Richmond-Jones
Cabin Service Manager

I appreciate the situation you found yourself in with this flight,unfortunately without the exact date/times/IAA notice dates,it would be very difficult to comment on the exact nature of the communication between the flight crew & engineers.

All i will say is that if the engineers are notified of a problem(which in some cases isnt always the case),they have no problem in sitting an aircraft down & delaying up to 189 pax + knock ons.All we are concerned about is safety.

With this is particular case,perhaps there was a communication issue with the crew.

Seems like the usual opinion of Ryanair and politics to me. There’s plenty of this no doubt over on PPRuNe 😉

KRJ – which airline are you a CSM for?

In reply (FR)

With regards to carrying tech faults for periods of time,i can assure you this is common practice at every airline throught out the world.The rules which ryanair abide by are made by the Irish Aviation Authority,i can assure you that ryanair have many dedicated & alot of very experienced people in the maintenance department.,how do i know this is because i’m part of it.Every little fault no matter how trivial is reported & dealt with in accordance with IAA procedures,the manufacturer Boeing provied manuals that gives time limits for faulty parts that can be carried,The IAA overlook the system so that there are no breaches of procedure,in the event of a serious fault we dont hesitate to ground the aircraft & repair the problem.

Thanks for your reply…

As a Cabin Service Manager I am fully aware of airline regulations that are governed by not only the country of their registration but also the country or region they are operating in. For example FR flying into Bournemouth would mean FR is governed by ‘IAA’, CAA and JAA regulations and protocols.

The item I spoke about in my post was the emergency slide cylinder (which is used to inflate the slide in the event of an evacuation). If the cylinder is showing ‘red’ this means the slide would not inflate and the exit must be made ‘InOp’. If this happens (on the Boeing 738 for example) the aircraft goes from eight exits down to seven, which of course means some pax should be off loaded.

JAA regulations clearly state (as do Boeing) that if the forward ‘main’ exit is ‘InOp’ then a certain amount of passengers need to be removed from the flight (if there is over 165 onboard). On the flight I was on there was well over 170 passengers on board, which should have led (by law) to passengers being removed. When I told my friend, who was the senior cabin crew on the flight, he told me he was aware of the issue, he had told the Captain and the Captain was told to carry on with the flight, as planned. This was a clear breach of IAA/CAA/JAA & FAA regulations (and also Boeing recommendations). The issue is every aircraft needs to be able to be evacuated with in a pre set time, with an exit being ‘InOp’ (esp when it’s the ‘main’ exit) it is HIGHLY unlikely the aircraft could ever be evacuated in the time constraints.

As for the lack of galley power on my flight (and only one bathroom) you are totally correct, these are not listed as essential equipment so the aircraft can continue to operate a normal schedule (however one should ask, would this be done in the name of good customer services and relations?)

If I can bring to your attention that in 2005 FR was fined by the IAA for operating an aircraft that departed with a full load of passengers and had two evacuation slide that were listed as InOp, this fault had been reported 24 hours before the flight in question. After this breach FR agreed to a new reported procedure, which according to a friend who works in their OPS department has greatly improved the situation.

I am sure for some passengers FR is a great airline thanks to where they fly from and to, but for me and my family I recommendation will remain – in the name of safety don’t fly with them, for now at least.

Kimberly Richmond-Jones
Cabin Service Manager

Hey all,

This is my first post so be nice to me hehe…

I have only flown FR twice but on both trips (four flights in total) I had serious concerns with safety and basic procedures performed by the Cabin Crew…

Last year I flew on a flight from Bournemouth airport to Prestwick(so called Glasgow by FR) and while boarding the Boeing 738 I spotted the emergency slid pressure indicator was well into the red (being senior cabin crew you tend to automatically check these things with out thinking!). When I informed the ‘senior’ crew member of this problem (he is a good friend, who has since left FR and gone to MON) he said he had reported the issue to the Capt and they had been told to “carry on with the flight as planned”. Admittedly the flight was NOT full, however there was only around eight seats not used, which meant the flight should have not departed with this emergency exit being unserviceable.

On the return flight it was on time, however there was only one bathroom that was working and they could not serve hot drinks “due to an issue with the galley power”.

I don’t understand how FR can be so useless with maintenance! They don’t seem to bother. My friends who work for FR say it’s an issue with the ground crew, all problems are always reported but sometimes an aircraft can continue to fly with quite bothersome faults for over three weeks, something that I have never heard off on LCC such as SouthWest, EasyJet and Air Berlin… Certainly never heard of any such long term problems on FlyBE!

As for the smoke detection (alarm) system on the aircraft, you should certainly be able to hear it! When these detectors are activated a continual ‘beeping’ is heard in the toilet (not that loud, but enough for the PAX to be informed he/she has been caught out. The Cabin Crew will be alerted by the cabin alert system, newer aircraft will also display messages on the Cabin Crews info screens (front, back or both) and on newer aircraft (most aircraft built since early 80’s) the flight deck crew will also notified by a ‘caution’ rated message on the EICAS screen/s.

It’s extremely important the Cabin Crew are alerted the very second ANY cabin smoke alarm is activated, seconds count and too much of a delay would be caused if only the FD were informed and they had to then pass such a message on to the Cabin Crew.

In the case of Ryan Air growing, they are – however market research shows that they are towards the bottom of the pile for repeat passengers (when compared to Easy, Thomson, Jet2) and it gets even worse when you take business passengers into account. If they can sort out their ever mounting delay’s they should be able to start winning people back.

Cheap fares will always bring people in, but it has to be match to the basic service your competitors are offering, if you can’t your passengers will think twice before returning…

As a while I think the idea of FR is a good one, it’s just sometimes badly implemented.

Kimberly Richmond-Jones
CSM

Welcome Kim..it’s nice to have a member of the fairer sex on board

With regards to carrying tech faults for periods of time,i can assure you this is common practice at every airline throught out the world.The rules which ryanair abide by are made by the Irish Aviation Authority,i can assure you that ryanair have many dedicated & alot of very experienced people in the maintenance department.,how do i know this is because i’m part of it.Every little fault no matter how trivial is reported & dealt with in accordance with IAA procedures,the manufacturer Boeing provied manuals that gives time limits for faulty parts that can be carried,The IAA overlook the system so that there are no breaches of procedure,in the event of a serious fault we dont hesitate to ground the aircraft & repair the problem.

FR :os

Hey all,

This is my first post so be nice to me hehe…

I have only flown FR twice but on both trips (four flights in total) I had serious concerns with safety and basic procedures performed by the Cabin Crew…

Last year I flew on a flight from Bournemouth airport to Prestwick(so called Glasgow by FR) and while boarding the Boeing 738 I spotted the emergency slid pressure indicator was well into the red (being senior cabin crew you tend to automatically check these things with out thinking!). When I informed the ‘senior’ crew member of this problem (he is a good friend, who has since left FR and gone to MON) he said he had reported the issue to the Capt and they had been told to “carry on with the flight as planned”. Admittedly the flight was NOT full, however there was only around eight seats not used, which meant the flight should have not departed with this emergency exit being unserviceable.

On the return flight it was on time, however there was only one bathroom that was working and they could not serve hot drinks “due to an issue with the galley power”.

I don’t understand how FR can be so useless with maintenance! They don’t seem to bother. My friends who work for FR say it’s an issue with the ground crew, all problems are always reported but sometimes an aircraft can continue to fly with quite bothersome faults for over three weeks, something that I have never heard off on LCC such as SouthWest, EasyJet and Air Berlin… Certainly never heard of any such long term problems on FlyBE!

As for the smoke detection (alarm) system on the aircraft, you should certainly be able to hear it! When these detectors are activated a continual ‘beeping’ is heard in the toilet (not that loud, but enough for the PAX to be informed he/she has been caught out. The Cabin Crew will be alerted by the cabin alert system, newer aircraft will also display messages on the Cabin Crews info screens (front, back or both) and on newer aircraft (most aircraft built since early 80’s) the flight deck crew will also notified by a ‘caution’ rated message on the EICAS screen/s.

It’s extremely important the Cabin Crew are alerted the very second ANY cabin smoke alarm is activated, seconds count and too much of a delay would be caused if only the FD were informed and they had to then pass such a message on to the Cabin Crew.

In the case of Ryan Air growing, they are – however market research shows that they are towards the bottom of the pile for repeat passengers (when compared to Easy, Thomson, Jet2) and it gets even worse when you take business passengers into account. If they can sort out their ever mounting delay’s they should be able to start winning people back.

Cheap fares will always bring people in, but it has to be match to the basic service your competitors are offering, if you can’t your passengers will think twice before returning…

As a while I think the idea of FR is a good one, it’s just sometimes badly implemented.

Kimberly Richmond-Jones
CSM

I flew DUB-PIK-DUB recently with FR,and i find the cabins quite comfortable,i was on EI-DAO,which has the non-fabric seating.I’m 6 foot 3,and of wide build and i didnt have a problem with the seating.If you dont like crowded flights then dont fly at peak times.Any flight by any airline at peak times is likely to be full,hence the term peak times.

I’d like to point out the facts when it comes to ryanair,they are what they are,they’re not pretending to offer a service that isnt there,year on year more passengers fly with ryanair…….so they must be doing something right.

Good old Ryanair – pay peanuts, get monkies! :rolleyes:

A

Did I say FR should gate check bags? NO I DIDNT!

Ive been on a flight EI FRA-DUB when a passenger started smoking in the toilets.

I didnt hear the smoke alarm and because you didnt either doesnt meen they werent working.

Hand luggage restrictions need to be enforced by Ryanairs handling agent in CIA, the cabin crw cant really do anything once the passenger is on board and FR dont gate check bags.

FR have alot of crew from all around Europe and some do have difficult to understand accents hence why they have pre-recorded safety announcements.

The problem with badly stored cabin luggage was picked up on before the plane took off so it wasnt really a problem.

And as Cal900 says Ryanair have one of the best safety records around.

One last thing when you mention that passengers cant understand the safety announcements why have you got that cheeky smile afterwards?
Do you think its funny?

Why should FR gate check bags,what is the point of this,passenegrs go thought security before they go airside andeverything that ou can buy airside is security screened.Every FR passeneger that flys in Europe can buy 10 liters of spirts and what ever perfume and aftershave they want,do you want gate staff,who are not FR staff to check all bags again,It just would not work.

Just to clarify one point: English is considered the common language throughout the aviation industry. All flight and cabin crew and air traffic controllers should be able to speak English.

Although I doubt this to be true around the globe, it certainly should be true throughout Europe.

1L.

Tell that to the French!!

I have flown with FR many times now AND never had an issue.

Yes, the staff are not the happiest most of the time and it is like getting on a bus, however the service they do provide, ie getting you from one place to another in time safely is a pretty good record.

In regards to leg room,, seat pitch, for a low cost airline its pretty good and the added bonus is no one can recline there seat which ensures you all have equal room!.

In regards to the smoking, a trigger alarm would of been activated on the deck… its not going to be a loud fire alarm @ 35,000ft… can you imagine the panic!

in regards to hand luggage, Its upto security and check in to stop you if you have too much stuff..

In regards to you saying theres a rule about one item……. just think of all the things you can purchase in duty free??? if you was only allowed one item these shops would not be able to trade as they do!!

I think your rant about FR does not include any real points to be honest,

Cheers

I had a problem as well on my Air Berlin flights, which they did a detailed saftey brefing, but a very poor one in English – and this was on a Manchester-Stansted flight!! :dev2:

But Ryanair are known for emplyoing a multi-national crew and lingustics must be taught correctly, especially on ex-British flights.

RE the English language thing: turn it around slightly – a series of recent Hajj pilgrimage flights were crewed by an all English, non-French speaking cabin crew. The passengers were all French Muslims and none of them spoke English.

So, it may be safe to say that lanaguage problems and incompatibilities are perhaps a common issue.