Israel looking for troubles ?

There we are in total agreement. I am also an atheist and appalled by the predominantly religious conflicts of the last thousand years. I’ll fight you and win because god is on my side, the protagonists declare. And in some cases it was the same god. Utter madness.

Your second sentence certainly establishes your credentials as being anti-Zionist and by many Jews as anti-Jewish, I would have thought. As you say our perspectives are very different and, for the record, I deplore any form of nationalism , be it Zionist, Arab, Islamist or any other so I hold no brief for either side.

A very well balanced reply. BTW I am an atheist and as such cannot understand these beliefs that lead to so much bigotry, discrimination and wasting of lives in pursuit of utopian ideals. In most if not all cases the manifestation of these beliefs fly in the face of the teachings of the religeons that spawned them in the first place. And yes, I do acknowledge that the ‘state’ of Israel and its Zionists are not alone in inflicting much harm and misery on others in the name of their beliefs. May a ‘supreme entity’ have mercy on them all.

Disclaimer: I am anti Zionist-not a Jew hater.

Then we must have been reading different documents.

But that’s just my opinion, and yours is worth every bit as little as mine. 🙂

Quite so, which is why I said that they do themselves no favours at all.

Can I take it, then, that we are agreed that Hamas are not a ‘nation’ in the normally accepted sense of the word?

Given that Hamas are a political entity and not a geographical location i struggle to see how they could ever be a nation in the sense that Israel or France are.
They do however exercise control over a piece of territory and supposedly represent the views of the people within that territory, thus it is perfectly possible for them to take a position that can be considered as putting them and thus that piece of territory at war with Israel.
Consider it a civil war if you wish, it is stll a state of warfare.

Edit: I do like your take on the value of our opinions 🙂

Pretty much all of it in my opinion.

Then we must have been reading different documents.

But that’s just my opinion, and yours is worth every bit as little as mine. 🙂

There could well be a large element of truth in that; however the fact remains that they do exist and do undertake acts that are a threat to Israel.

Quite so, which is why I said that they do themselves no favours at all.

Can I take it, then, that we are agreed that Hamas are not a ‘nation’ in the normally accepted sense of the word?

Could you quote the relevant section of the document, please?

Pretty much all of it in my opinion.

Nations can only be at war with other nations….

Do you really believe that? What’s a civil war in that case?

It could also be argued that Israel find Hamas as convenient a bogeyman as the USA and UK find Al-Qaeda. Not that Hamas do themselves any favours in that respect, of course.

There could well be a large element of truth in that; however the fact remains that they do exist and do undertake acts that are a threat to Israel.

I’m sure your opinion comes as a relief to the UK soldiers killed in Northern Ireland.:rolleyes:

Hmmm…. a nice specimen of smearing by implication there, Mr B.

A bit wasted on someone who saw the centre of his home city blown up by a Republican truck-bomb, mind you.

Your patented reply when you’re caught…
The intent and meaning of your posts are very clear…your’re just smart enough not to make them latent.:D

So I take it that you can’t quote me saying the things that you accused me of saying, then? Imagine my astonishment…..

You can’t seriously expect me to justify your interpretation of my words.

Now… how about we stop discussing one another’s finer qualities and return to the subject of the thread?

Please show me where I said that you had, Mr B.

Your patented reply when you’re caught…
The intent and meaning of your posts are very clear…your’re just smart enough not to make them latent.:D

Nations can only be at war with other nations. Do you consider Hamas to be a nation?

I’m sure your opinion comes as a relief to the UK soldiers killed in Northern Ireland.:rolleyes:
They were’t at war with the IRA, though at times it must have seemed like it.:D

Think you need to re-read that. Missed the important “s” at the end of belligerents. If you take the “and” and “neutral” out “belligerents states” makes no sense while “belligerent state(s)” would. That’s why the and is there IMO. On the other hand, the reading as it is, allows for belligerents who are non-state entities to be considered for blockade – which would make good sense.

So if I change the spelling, the definitions and the order of the words around a bit, it means what you say it means?

Riiiiiiight……

The document as written allows for the belligerent to be a non state entity.

Could you quote the relevant section of the document, please?

Given the conflict currently taking place i also don’t see it as too much of a stretch to say the Israel is in fact at war with Hamas.

Nations can only be at war with other nations. Do you consider Hamas to be a nation?

It could be argued that it is only the restraint of a properly functioning, democratic nation that has allowed Hamas to continue to control the Gaza strip.

It could also be argued that Israel find Hamas as convenient a bogeyman as the USA and UK find Al-Qaeda. Not that Hamas do themselves any favours in that respect, of course.

Having said all that i feel that the expansion into previously Palestinian land (as defined in recent years) by the settlers is a stupid and provocative move by the more fanatical Israeli elements, which should be halted asap.

On this, at least, we are in agreement.

I can’t understand why relief supplies for Gaza are not transported under the auspices of the International Red Cross or some similarly respected and neutral non-governmental organisation, instead of in ad-hoc flotillas.

I’m anti-jew. What you gonna do? I’m anti-cristian and anti-muslim to the same breathstroke as well. I think all religions are for nutters…Given the grief and malice, germans should have done better job back in…

…;)…I didn’t say when!!!:eek::dev2:

A good old saying applies to this situation perfectly; If you have nail sticking in you and it’s causing trouple, hitting it will only make it go deeper.

But the Gerrmans have always had god on their side………;)

How to spell it isn’t the problem.

How to stop spelling it, that’s the problem.

…another Pratchett fan I see.

However, on topic, I’m in the camp that supports Israel in all that she does.

I’m with you Gollevainen with regard to the thoughts re organised religion; it’s only purpose is control and subjugation of the populance.

And I’m with you both on that.

Disclaimer: I’m anti Zionist-not a Jew hater

The section you have quoted refers to the conduct of a blockade against a belligerent state during wartime – as clearly evidenced by the references to ‘belligerents’ and ‘neutral states’.

With which other nations is Israel currently at war?

What Ryanshort1 said.
The document as written allows for the belligerent to be a non state entity.
Given the conflict currently taking place i also don’t see it as too much of a stretch to say the Israel is in fact at war with Hamas.
It could be argued that it is only the restraint of a properly functioning, democratic nation that has allowed Hamas to continue to control the Gaza strip.
I’m pretty sure that if the positions were reversed the actions taken by Hamas would be very different to those of the Israelis.
Having said all that i feel that the expansion into previously Palestinian land (as defined in recent years) by the settlers is a stupid and provocative move by the more fanatical Israeli elements, which should be halted asap.
I’m with you Gollevainen with regard to the thoughts re organised religion; it’s only purpose is control and subjugation of the populance.

I’m anti-jew. What you gonna do? I’m anti-cristian and anti-muslim to the same breathstroke as well. I think all religions are for nutters…Given the grief and malice, germans should have done better job back in…

…;)…I didn’t say when!!!:eek::dev2:

A good old saying applies to this situation perfectly; If you have nail sticking in you and it’s causing trouple, hitting it will only make it go deeper.

Your second sentence certainly establishes your credentials as being anti-Zionist and by many Jews as anti-Jewish, I would have thought. As you say our perspectives are very different and, for the record, I deplore any form of nationalism , be it Zionist, Arab, Islamist or any other so I hold no brief for either side.

Er, no, I can’t. I can see a small nation with an outsized military capability in relation to its population and no natural resources surrounded by tens of millions of inimical people backed by varying degrees of military strength and raw material wealth.

Then we both have very different perceptions of the situation. All I can see is a nation founded by a group of people motivated by a dubious ‘historical’ sentiment for the founding of the ‘state’ of Israel. And this based on unsubstantiated Zionist theories, beliefs and superstition. The country is sustained on revenue mainly from vested interests and sympathisers in the U.S and would implode without that money and the subsidised arms that come with it. Nobody in the region invited the Zionists to set up the ‘state’ and in so doing dispossesing the Palestinian people the right to their homeland. Not to mention the right of the other countries of the region to live in peace and security. Therefore I trust that you’ll understand why I shed no tears for the ‘state’ of Israel.

Disclaimer: I am anti Zionist-not a Jew hater.

The section you have quoted refers to the conduct of a blockade against a belligerent state during wartime – as clearly evidenced by the references to ‘belligerents’ and ‘neutral states’.

With which other nations is Israel currently at war?

Think you need to re-read that. Missed the important “s” at the end of belligerents. If you take the “and” and “neutral” out “belligerents states” makes no sense while “belligerent state(s)” would. That’s why the and is there IMO. On the other hand, the reading as it is, allows for belligerents who are non-state entities to be considered for blockade – which would make good sense.
I doubt that you really think a nation doesn’t have the right to defend against organized criminal elements (and NO, I’m not saying that all “Palestinians” are in that category) within or on it’s borders.
I still think Israeli leadership was stupid for letting this happen the way it did, but the folks doing the blockade running are also wrong in my book for the way they allowed that one crew to behave. Non-violent resistance would’ve gone a LOT further in making their point and making it clear that they aren’t just sympathizers with an organization that’s been involved in criminal activities.

Ryan

So I’m sure you’ll quite understand the view from where Iran sits and how the world looks from their perspective and that of the other countries in the region.

Er, no, I can’t. I can see a small nation with an outsized military capability in relation to its population and no natural resources surrounded by tens of millions of inimical people backed by varying degrees of military strength and raw material wealth.

I’m rather tired of people hysterically stating that the boarding of the ships was illegal due to them being in international waters. Do a little bit of research / googling people…SECTION II : METHODS OF WARFARE

Blockade

93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline……

The section you have quoted refers to the conduct of a blockade against a belligerent state during wartime – as clearly evidenced by the references to ‘belligerents’ and ‘neutral states’.

With which other nations is Israel currently at war?

Obama’s supine attitude to Iran has exacerbated the problem for Israel. I am no fervent supporter of either Israel or the Palestinians and their paymasters, but I’m pretty sure how I would feel if I was an Israeli. I am making no excuses but trying to see the worls from theur perspective. And it does not look very friendly.

So I’m sure you’ll quite understand the view from where Iran sits and how the world looks from their perspective and that of the other countries in the region.