Attempted mid air bombing in Detriot?

I don’t think anybody buys one way, there are so many cheap deals on returns they are mostly cheaper. I often fly out to Canada on A.Can but back with BA. We book a return trip for each leg of the journey and cancel the legs we don’t need. Crazy world.

As for this terrorist, is he in a US State where execution is permitted?

He will be tried in a federal court on terrorism charges (the fact that he is being tried in a civil criminal court – as per the Obama Administration, rather than a military tribunal is a subject of significant controversy here), and since no one was killed (through no lack of trying) he will not face the death penalty. The likely outcome for the terrorist in this case is “three hots and a cot” for at least a couple of decades in a federal prison – which, of course, is a far more generous fate than his would-be victims would have suffered if he had succeeded.

His visa was issued in June 2008. His ticket – not one-way, incidentally – was purchased just a few weeks ago.

I don’t think anybody buys one way, there are so many cheap deals on returns they are mostly cheaper. I often fly out to Canada on A.Can but back with BA. We book a return trip for each leg of the journey and cancel the legs we don’t need. Crazy world.

As for this terrorist, is he in a US State where execution is permitted?

All we ever hear here is that Islam is not to blame…radical Islam is.
It’s not portrayed as a religious issue…rather as a political issue that happens to occur via members of a particular religion.

I can see your tongue coming through your cheek from here!

If I had witnessed this first-hand, I can safely say there would have been a bigger explosion in my underpants.:eek:

Now our man is pleading “not Guilty”. Well, the judge entered the plea on his behalf…

‘Not guilty’ plea in Detroit plane bomb case

This person was on the ‘Watch’ list but not apparently on the ‘No Fly’ list . It looks like all these agencies CIA , FBI and the rest of the alphabet soup Security Agencies are still not talking to each other .

Incidentally, I was speaking to a bloke the other day who was saying that he went out to the States about 20 years ago on a 1 year working visa and has only just been deported. He said that after his first year he wanted to stay, so he did (illegally). He even remained working (and paying taxes) for the following 19 years. I questioned that by paying taxes, they must have surely known he was still in the country and over staying his welcome, but he said the IRS don’t communicate to other organisations and that they all have major communication issues in general.

He said he only got caught because he was on a fishing trip in Miami with some friends and while they were offshore the cops found some drugs floating in barrels near to the shore so they roped a whole section of it off for investigation. When the blokes came back from their fishing trip the cops had to stop them to check their papers and picked him up – he now can’t return for 10 years 🙂

His visa was issued in June 2008. His ticket – not one-way, incidentally – was purchased just a few weeks ago.

However, two very good reasons for giving him a ‘good going over’ certainly at AMS, if not at LOS, appear to have failed to filter through. Firstly, he was ‘shopped’ by his own dear father just a few weeks ago, as being ‘suspicious’. Secondly, he was travelling, allegedly for a two-week period, with little more than a change of underwear (no wonder… ). These two facts should have been reason enough to pull him aside and give him at least a good questioning.

I’m flying out of GLA at the beginning of next week to the US, and am pretty p****d off at the additional hassle that I’m going to have to deal with thanks to this latest incident. Will additional ‘security’, insisted on and being imposed by the US authorities do anything to stop terrorism? Will it b*****y. Besides, once these clowns are stopped from flying, who’s to say that they won’t resort to bringing down aircraft using other means. The occasional use of S-A-M missiles, for example… No amount of increased airport ‘security’ would stop that!

Like I said earlier, even if he didn’t succeed, he (and others like him) has caused untold chaos in the aviation industry.

That is for sure. How in the heck did he manage to get a visa with a one-way ticket?

His visa was issued in June 2008. His ticket – not one-way, incidentally – was purchased just a few weeks ago.

However, two very good reasons for giving him a ‘good going over’ certainly at AMS, if not at LOS, appear to have failed to filter through. Firstly, he was ‘shopped’ by his own dear father just a few weeks ago, as being ‘suspicious’. Secondly, he was travelling, allegedly for a two-week period, with little more than a change of underwear (no wonder… ). These two facts should have been reason enough to pull him aside and give him at least a good questioning.

I’m flying out of GLA at the beginning of next week to the US, and am pretty p****d off at the additional hassle that I’m going to have to deal with thanks to this latest incident. Will additional ‘security’, insisted on and being imposed by the US authorities do anything to stop terrorism? Will it b*****y. Besides, once these clowns are stopped from flying, who’s to say that they won’t resort to bringing down aircraft using other means. The occasional use of S-A-M missiles, for example… No amount of increased airport ‘security’ would stop that!

This person was on the ‘Watch’ list but not apparently on the ‘No Fly’ list . It looks like all these agencies CIA , FBI and the rest of the alphabet soup Security Agencies are still not talking to each other .

That is for sure. How in the heck did he manage to get a visa with a one-way ticket?

This person was on the ‘Watch’ list but not apparently on the ‘No Fly’ list . It looks like all these agencies CIA , FBI and the rest of the alphabet soup Security Agencies are still not talking to each other .

Maybe the answer lies in his underpants.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1239162/Umar-Farouk-Abdulmutallabs-charred-underwear-hid-explosives-Christmas-day-airline-bomb-plot.html?ITO=1708&referrer=yahoo

Where did the information stating the type of explosive come from? Was it official or more sensationalism from the journos? It is not official SOP to divulge such information so soon after such an incident.
PETN needs a detonator, not matches to explode.
So, to another theory – was this a set up by security services to have a device which would fail, but create enough fear among pax and be suitably fed by the press to ensure additional funds, and the inevitable knee jerking as has happened, to give the security industry more powers and cash, just a thought. Or, was our man so keen to get in to the US he didn’t forsee the consequences of his actions, again knowing the ‘device’ would not explode. Remember his line of study in London and Allah knows what in The Yemen.

Someone as cynical as me… surely not ? 😉

…and his opinions were more motivated towards the Religious than the political?

All we ever hear here is that Islam is not to blame…radical Islam is.
It’s not portrayed as a religious issue…rather as a political issue that happens to occur via members of a particular religion.

Where did the information stating the type of explosive come from? Was it official or more sensationalism from the journos? It is not official SOP to divulge such information so soon after such an incident.
PETN needs a detonator, not matches to explode.
So, to another theory – was this a set up by security services to have a device which would fail, but create enough fear among pax and be suitably fed by the press to ensure additional funds, and the inevitable knee jerking as has happened, to give the security industry more powers and cash, just a thought. Or, was our man so keen to get in to the US he didn’t forsee the consequences of his actions, again knowing the ‘device’ would not explode. Remember his line of study in London and Allah knows what in The Yemen.

How is it political if Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab was studying at the Dubai based branch of the University of Wollongong?

Nigerian plane suspect ‘just another student’ in Dubai

Terror suspect attended Aussie-run uni

Allen. (My apologies.)

I understand you questioning the likelihood of a successful (in his eyes) ‘end result.’ But isn’t the point simply that he boarded an aircraft whilst carrying on his person an explosive device which went undetected until such time as he tried to detonate it? It doesn’t matter whether he was a ‘wannabe’ or not, he came close to detonating an explosive device aboard an aircraft. Someone better trained may have been successful. If 100g of that stuff can destroy a car, the 80g he was carrying, if successfully detonated, would at the very least have ruined everyone’s day. I don’t know what damage would have been done, whether it would have been sufficient to bring down the aircraft or not. Thankfully, he failed and we haven’t been reading about a more serious outcome.

So do we all consider ourselves lucky that this lad was nothing more than a highly politically opinionated young man, who could have chosen a more appropriate line of study whilst in London ?

I think perhaps it would be more pertinent to examine what he was studying whilst in the Yemen. Was he highly politically opinionated? Or had he been radicalised whilst in the Yemen and his opinions were more motivated towards the Religious than the political?

Regards,

kev35

Allen.

It really makes no difference whether he was wannabe or a fully paid up, card carrying member of Al Qaeda. The end result of the successful detonation of that amount and type of explosive would have been the same.

Yes, and I’m questioning just how likely the ‘end result’ really was…?

As for the unsuccessful detonation and why it has not been used more widely, perhaps it is difficult to board an aircraft successfully with this virtually untraceable explosive and a system with which to detonate it. My understanding is very limited but perhaps he didn’t have enough of the catalyst (nitroglycerine) to create a reaction which would have led to detonation.

So do we all consider ourselves lucky that this lad was nothing more than a highly politically opinionated young man, who could have chosen a more appropriate line of study whilst in London ?

As regards the watch list, it seems he has been on that since May when he was refused a visa to visit the UK. Question now is whether there was a security failure regarding him being allowed to travel, or is it that the security agencies simply have too many people to ‘watch’ for?

I agree with you there on that score. Whoever is watching the ‘watch list’ maybe needs to be relieved of their ‘watch’ more often… 🙁

Just for info really (as i don’t think it’s mentioned anywhere), but the plane was N820NW. Had it on my SBS between 0934 and 0953.

Regards,
Andy

Allan.

It really makes no difference whether he was wannabe or a fully paid up, card carrying member of Al Qaeda. The end result of the successful detonation of that amount and type of explosive would have been the same. As for the unsuccessful detonation and why it has not been used more widely, perhaps it is difficult to board an aircraft successfully with this virtually untraceable explosive and a system with which to detonate it. My understanding is very limited but perhaps he didn’t have enough of the catalyst (nitroglycerine) to create a reaction which would have led to detonation.

As regards the watch list, it seems he has been on that since May when he was refused a visa to visit the UK. Question now is whether there was a security failure regarding him being allowed to travel, or is it that the security agencies simply have too many people to ‘watch’ for?

Regards,

kev35

The report said that it cannot be “sniffed” at this time. You have to to a chemical analysis. I will try find that report. As for the substance, it has been around for a long time because I read about it when I was in high school, that was 30 odd years ago. Dunno why they haven’t developed an easy test for it. Our cars are randomly sampled for traces of explosives at work. They rub it with a special swab and then put it into a machine.

PETN