VAT Cut versus Government Borrowing

But do you want to be proud of something?

Not at all, I learned a long time ago that pride comes before a fall.

Yes, an accident of birthplace but ask people from any other country and they’ll usually give you a list a long as your arm.

😀 This I’m fully aware of, there are flag wavers everywhere, but they’re mostly misguided.

Ask the British, or more specifically the English, and most of us struggle to come up with anything.

Ask me, I’m English, I did 50 years there, (probably for my past life sins) but it isn’t my fault, I blame my parents.:D

Not by me…..all government decisions should be judged on merit shouldn’t they?

Absolutely – I think I spend too much time on other forums which seem to degenerate into “anything the government does is wrong” type arguments all the time!!

I did see an interesting article yesterday though suggesting that reducing income tax for a year for those on lower pay would have removed 1 million taxpayers from paying income tax and would have cost £2bn less than the VAT give away. Interesting thought how that would have panned out politically…

I find it hard to proud of anything, least of all an accident of birthplace.

But do you want to be proud of something?

Yes, an accident of birthplace but ask people from any other country and they’ll usually give you a list a long as your arm.

Ask the British, or more specifically the English, and most of us struggle to come up with anything.

…the VAT “giveaway” is in response to people not spending…

Agreed, I just don’t think this reduction in VAT is the best way of going about it…..and it costs a huge amount.

Whatever the government had done they would have been criticised…

Not by me…..all government decisions should be judged on merit shouldn’t they?

NO! I love my country. I was born here and (hopefully) I’ll die here…..but in between I want to be proud of my country.

I find it hard to proud of anything, least of all an accident of birthplace.

Letting any banks fail would have been financial suicide for Britain…..but who said anything about banks?

Well that’s where it all started and a the VAT “giveaway” is in response to people not spending because of that. To be honest we were going to be paying for this big style anyway once the government had bailed out the banks and if they didn’t do something to stimulate the economy then things would have become pretty dire. Whatever the government had done they would have been criticised – I am no fan of the present mob but they seem to have coped so far without things going completely belly up.

I do wonder what all those complaining would have done – let all the banks fail perhaps?

Letting any banks fail would have been financial suicide for Britain…..but who said anything about banks?

The £12.5 billion VAT giveaway is a different matter completely; it is a huge sum of money to be adding to national debt at the moment. It is supposed to stimulate the economy but clearly from your laptop example it had no effect on your ‘big ticket’ purchase at all; you bought something you were going to buy anyway…

…and don’t forget you ‘saved’ tenner will be taxed back off you in a few years time…..with interest. 😉

I do wonder what all those complaining would have done – let all the banks fail perhaps ? I suppose we wouldn’t be complaining about borrowing as we would all have lost our jobs and have no money anyway!

Hi Misha
I dont think that many of us would like to see the banks fail but you may have noticed the Huge bonuses that the financial ‘chappies’ in the city etc have been awarding themselves for years and also the speculators etc gambling with our pensions etc for years,the banking system is not in trouble through ‘bad luck’ it is through being totally out of control for years and then of course the good old taxpayers will come along and bail them out again,guess what… we are going to be paying through the nose for years…I am glad that I work in maintenance and not sales at the moment.

regards baz

Interestingly, my housemate who is a manager in a small independent retail shop said that the VAT reduction will nothing to encourage us to shop more, and will do even more damage to small businesses, especially those in retail, simply because they will have bought stock in time for Christmas at the higher rate of VAT, and now that the rate has been reduced, if he decides to reduce the price of the products that he sells, he wont make any money!

Surely retailers purchase their stock ex VAT?? Isn’t VAT a consumer tax rather than a business tax?? Just interested as I thought wholesale was always ex VAT.

I do notice that a lot of retailers are already bringing their prices down (the changes take place officially on Monday). I would imagine that the savings would soon start to mount up! Already saved a tenner on a laptop I’m going to get at the weekend (thanks as well in no small part to my wife putting her foot down when I wanted to buy it last week!!)

I do wonder what all those complaining would have done – let all the banks fail perhaps ? I suppose we wouldn’t be complaining about borrowing as we would all have lost our jobs and have no money anyway!

Just in case nobody’s noticed, a reduction of 2.5% in VAT is not a 2.5% reduction in the cost to consumers. Instead of paying £117.50 we’ll be paying £115. That’s a £2.50 saving per £117.50, which is nearer 2.13%.

Of course, a cynic would say that retailers won’t pass on the full reduction to consumers and are bound to round prices up anyway, so we’d be lucky to be paying 2% less. Good job I’m not a cynic. :dev2:

im a cynic your right:)

Just in case nobody’s noticed, a reduction of 2.5% in VAT is not a 2.5% reduction in the cost to consumers. Instead of paying £117.50 we’ll be paying £115. That’s a £2.50 saving per £117.50, which is nearer 2.13%.

Of course, a cynic would say that retailers won’t pass on the full reduction to consumers and are bound to round prices up anyway, so we’d be lucky to be paying 2% less. Good job I’m not a cynic. :dev2:

Interestingly, my housemate who is a manager in a small independent retail shop said that the VAT reduction will nothing to encourage us to shop more, and will do even more damage to small businesses, especially those in retail, simply because they will have bought stock in time for Christmas at the higher rate of VAT, and now that the rate has been reduced, if he decides to reduce the price of the products that he sells, he wont make any money!

And when they put VAT up to 17.5% shop keepers complained – it’s a national pastime in the UK.

While cutting prices in the shops is smarter than a tax rabate (which would be saved and not spent) I do agree that 2.5% is not likely to make me spend more – and is not going to save Woolworths.

Anyone else got the feeling that they would like to move to a different country if they had the choice?

Which country? I admit to being confused about the fuss about national debt. Our debt is about 40% of GDP right now. With all the Government borrowing Channel Four news said it will rise to about 57% of GDP – which is about where France is now. So Gordon kept our debt down giving him room to borrow now there is a crisis. And that is a problem because . . .?

They cannot even supply basic kit like socks…yes,socks….that last more than a few days. My son and his comrades had to buy just about all their desert kit because the issue was, in his words, grossly insulting. I am inclined to parcel some if it up and send to No 10 to ask Gordon if he would send his son to war in it…

You should. In fact, get your son and all his mates out there to send Gordon socks for Christmas – might get something done.

I can remember the scandal over soldiers in the Falklands having to buy their own boots and promises it wouldn’t happen again. Yeah right.

They (politicians) already do live in a different country…London:dev2::):D

Anyone else got the feeling that they would like to move to a different country if they had the choice?

NO! I love my country. I was born here and (hopefully) I’ll die here…..but in between I want to be proud of my country.

Interestingly, my housemate who is a manager in a small independent retail shop said that the VAT reduction will nothing to encourage us to shop more, and will do even more damage to small businesses, especially those in retail, simply because they will have bought stock in time for Christmas at the higher rate of VAT, and now that the rate has been reduced, if he decides to reduce the price of the products that he sells, he wont make any money!

These dark times remind me of a newspaper headline from a long time ago which said: “Would the last person out of Britain, please turn off the lights!”

Anyone else got the feeling that they would like to move to a different country if they had the choice?

Some of the Land Rovers my lad has been driving in a certain middle eastern country are older than he is and are veterans of Northern Ireland.

FRES? Huh. They cannot even supply basic kit like socks…yes,socks….that last more than a few days. My son and his comrades had to buy just about all their desert kit because the issue was, in his words, grossly insulting. I am inclined to parcel some if it up and send to No 10 to ask Gordon if he would send his son to war in it…or, if not, maybe he’d be happy to send his son off in a C-130 sans fire retardant or unsafe Nimrods?

The lunatics have most definitely taken over the assylum.

Also, see here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/8083803

MOD = Ministry of Deceit

What bothers me is the ineptitude with which £12.5 billion is added to the national debt just so we can get a few quid off a flat-screen-telly…

…meanwhile the much delayed and cut-back £16 billion FRES programme, to deliver replacement armoured vehicles to the British Army, has been quoted as being a major cause of job losses at BAE Land Systems where an upturn in fortunes “doesn’t look likely”.

Still, it’s not as if British servicemen are being killed and maimed because they’re still using poorly armoured Land Rovers! :rolleyes:

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You don’t pay VAT on road tax, its just like any other tax, although I’m not sure if they include the duty on alcohol and tobacco when they calculate VAT.

Its really worrying, the ammount the state is borrowing at the moment. Just whose money are they borrowing? I keep having visions of all of Europe and North America indebted to China for a generation 🙁

This country realy has gone to the dogs:):)

Does anyone know if we pay vat on road tax?……a tax thats taxed:confused: