Tory peer lord norman tebbit-teach kids to shoot

Having raised the issue of Scouting, lets view the possibilities of this in the aspect of a ‘responsible’ goup.
I worked with the Scouts for many years, despite being a small village group, our leaders were incredible. We had experts on sailing, canoeing, mountaineering etc, my speciality was mountain knowledge, map reading, camping skills, generally living off the land.
Our kids were taught to pretty much be able to look after themselves, it was noticeable at Jamborees and such like, how much more independant our kids were compared to some of the others, to put it in to context, despite the fact that we were the smallest group at the International Jamboree in Walton in 91, and bearing in mind there were 5000 Scouts from all over the world present, we won the bronze award, third place, a bit of a triumph.
As time went on, it became more noticeable that the attitude of the kids coming through from Cubs was pretty pathetic, they were only interested in computer games and football. Now we are talking about middle class kids here from wealthy local farming families, rich kids who’s parents had moved from London, and kids from the families of MOD Police instructors at Wethersfield Base, ( they were the worse).
My own son was probably the last true Scout left, he had to pack it in anyway at 15, but was so fed up with the up and coming kids, that he wasn’t prepared to become a venture scout and have to deal with these nerds, that he went for the Duke of Edinburgh award scheme instead.
Leaving scouting aside for a while, he joined up, when the organisers saw his scouting CV, they thought he was Rambo, shudder, no this is what we do!!!!
Totally oblivious to the fact that his Chief Scout award meant he already qualified for the Bronze Award, he started off at the bottom.
Despite having apparently unlimited funds and equipment, he found the instructors so bad, that after personally rescuing them in the middle of Thetford Forest, he gave that one up as a bad job. He’s at University now, and a cool kid, probably the only scout ever in existance that is a real Masai warrior, but thats another story.
Back to Scouting, the kids that were coming through, despite their parentage, background etc, were just pathetic.
Our main scout leader resigned, he’d had enough of it. I soldiered on for a while with our new leader, a smashing bloke too, but what did it was a weekend narrow boat cruise.
Apart from my other attributes, I am an ECC narrow boat captain, but the behaviour and attitude of the kids on this trip was appalling. One of them nearly drowned and got crushed between two boats, the rest of the trip was mayhem. After that I didn’t want to know, the leader resigned as well and the great Finchingfield scout group ceased to exist, sad isn’t it, you spend all your time working with kids and it gets to the point where you can’t be bothered anymore, and wer’e not talking about inner city kids here, they probably would have made more of an effort.
So would you try and give these kids shooting lessons, I don’t think so, I’ve worked with them, no way would they understand the point of it all, it would be blam blam you’re dead, the situation with the shotguns at the Jamboree gave us cause for concern, we decided to give the area a wide berth afterwards.
Get back to your security cloaked mansion Mr Tebbitt and forget about real life, if happy go lucky, happy family, country village kids can’t be trusted with penknives, forget shooting practice, you’ll end up wiping out a generation, or is that a bad thing?

I totaly agree with it, at least if they can shoot straight it will stop a lot of innocent bystanders dying when they start killing each other.

Unless you happen to see it happen and they decide they dont want any witnesses !

Tebbit wants to teach them how to shoot ? what next? 15 easy ways to break into a pensioner’s house ?

sheer stupid madness

I have to say this, and it will make Mr Lawrence smile.
I used to be involved with the Scouts as a non uniformed leader, but we had a bit of a non-conformist group, we were always in trouble with the ‘Powers that Be’, as we didn’t exactly abide by their version of the modern Scouting code, ie, no knives, yes, how can you carry out Scoutcraft without a Swiss Army penknife, bloody ridiculous, can’t risk their lives with going out and making bivvies for the night, the list was endless, couldn’t do a bloody thing ended up with the eventual termination of myself and the Leaders involvement with Scouting, it got too ridiculous and a waste of time, apart from the threat of litigation, which did actually happen to us, it was an end to a part of my life caused by outside sources that were just pathetic.
What is amusing is that we went to a Jamboree at Walton on the Naze and as part of their tasks, they had to blast away at clays with a shotgun, this was probably 10 years ago, imagine that, youths given a shotgun at such an age with no previous experience, scouts were obviously considered beyond the pale at the time, but even then I thought it was a bit wierd.
Any Scouters on here, ever kipped on Scaffell Pike with a load of divvies.

I have heard similar stories in the past and if there was no initial safety talk it is rather worrying.

It should be pointed out here that teaching kids how to shoot pheasants will not really give them any skill that would be useful for the kind of shootings that occur in urban areas. There is a world of difference between a double barreled 12 bore and a Berretra 92. The skills to use such weapons (reasonably simple) are available on the streets. Add to that the fact that most shootings occur at very short range and it soon becomes apparent that Mr Tebbits idea would not ill equip the chosen youths at all.

I have to say this, and it will make Mr Lawrence smile.
I used to be involved with the Scouts as a non uniformed leader, but we had a bit of a non-conformist group, we were always in trouble with the ‘Powers that Be’, as we didn’t exactly abide by their version of the modern Scouting code, ie, no knives, yes, how can you carry out Scoutcraft without a Swiss Army penknife, bloody ridiculous, can’t risk their lives with going out and making bivvies for the night, the list was endless, couldn’t do a bloody thing ended up with the eventual termination of myself and the Leaders involvement with Scouting, it got too ridiculous and a waste of time, apart from the threat of litigation, which did actually happen to us, it was an end to a part of my life caused by outside sources that were just pathetic.
What is amusing is that we went to a Jamboree at Walton on the Naze and as part of their tasks, they had to blast away at clays with a shotgun, this was probably 10 years ago, imagine that, youths given a shotgun at such an age with no previous experience, scouts were obviously considered beyond the pale at the time, but even then I thought it was a bit wierd.
Any Scouters on here, ever kipped on Scaffell Pike with a load of divvies.

…gave a real understanding of how powerful a weapon a gun really is (A sense which I genuinely feel is eroded by Video games)…

The famous shooting expert Elmer Keith — who had a hand in developing the .357 and .44 Magnums — wouldn’t let his children have cap guns for that reason.

Dont know if this is true or not. but made me smile.

Marine Corps General Reinwald was interviewed on the radio the
other day and you’ll love his reply to the lady who interviewed him
concerning guns and children. Regardless of how you feel about gun laws,
this reply is priceless.

This is a portion of National Public Radio (NPR) interview between a

female broadcaster and US Marine Corps General Reinwald who was
about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military installation.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Reinwald, what things are you going
to teach these young boys when they visit your base?

GENERAL REINWALD: We’re going to teach them climbing, canoeing,
archery and shooting.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Shooting! That’s a bit irresponsible, isn’t it?

GENERAL REINWALD: I don’t see why, they’ll be properly supervised
on the rifle range.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Don’t you admit that this is a terribly
dangerous activity to be teaching children?

GENERAL REINWALD: I don’t see how. We will be teaching them proper
rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: But you’re equipping them to become violent
killers.

GENERAL REINWALD: Well, Ma’am, you’re equipped to be a prostitute,
but you’re not one, are you?

The radio went silent and the interview ended.

Such an idea would only work on the brighter kids, with intelligent parents. These kids already know right from wrong and the danger of guns/knives etc.

So, a youth is caught with a firearm, the police and other authorities decide that he needs to join a programme to learn how to handle it.
The delinquent scum that patrol the streets would see it as training, in much the same way as they use youth Jail as a Gladiator School.

Bad idea in modern UK.

Not strictly true,as it is still legal to own an ak ,may be not a 47 version but one of its brothers ,as long as they are manual strait pull ,which means the weapon has to be cocked after every shot.Which to be perfectly honest makes no difference after being hit with a 7.62 round.;)
Mr tebbits idea though basically flawed, in his now renowned tactless way he isn’t too far off the truth.
I think the peer comes from a generation which were brought up on war and guns ,thus not seeing them as a status symbol.
Today’s yob culture think owning or carrying a weapon makes them more powerful,they dont care about the aftermath of a shooting as there long gone then.
Now how to introduce the little tykes to a regulated gun community who will try to teach and inform also show the wounds from firearms.
How about the army…..

I dare you to find me a UK legal AK-47.;)

There is anecdotal (and I have witnessed it in my own line of work) evidence that the current generation, and before, simply do not appreciate the effect of metal on flesh until they see it. Its not necessarily a military thing just purely one of comprehension.

…How about the army…..

Better yet, how about someone else’s army? 😎

Nobody would be let loose with AK-47’s, for a start the weapon is highly illegal in the UK.

Not strictly true,as it is still legal to own an ak ,may be not a 47 version but one of its brothers ,as long as they are manual strait pull ,which means the weapon has to be cocked after every shot.Which to be perfectly honest makes no difference after being hit with a 7.62 round.;)
Mr tebbits idea though basically flawed, in his now renowned tactless way he isn’t too far off the truth.
I think the peer comes from a generation which were brought up on war and guns ,thus not seeing them as a status symbol.
Today’s yob culture think owning or carrying a weapon makes them more powerful,they dont care about the aftermath of a shooting as there long gone then.
Now how to introduce the little tykes to a regulated gun community who will try to teach and inform also show the wounds from firearms.
How about the army…..

I think that Mr Tebbitts ever present senility is beginning to show even more, perhaps SeaLordLawrence would like to volunteer to give them lessons at shooting as well advice on what to kill, the local authorities might even have a few harpoon guns lurking in the council vaults that they could lend him.
I’ve just driven past the shooting butts at Andrewsfield, I was very tempted to ask them what they thought of the idea of a load of reprobate teenage druggies being let lose with a collection of AK-47’s, I decided that their comments might be a little too much for me today, after all it is Pancake Day, perhaps a national youth scheme on making pancakes might be more appropriate, and less harmful to the environment of course.

Nobody would be let loose with AK-47’s, for a start the weapon is highly illegal in the UK. Secondly it has very little utility (compared with other firearms) with regard to hunting.

Introducing youngsters to the true power of a firearm before they find out by shooting a person is a very sensible idea. The mental conception is very difficult until it is actually witnessed, you can tell a person that a weapon is deadly over and over again but until they actually see its real effects they struggle to understand it

A new poem dedicated to the “feral”* urban ute’s 😀

Lord, take the gangstas’ and homies
show ’em how to shoot straight,
I be bad, but but bored
I aint no reprobate…

I gotto take him down
’cause he dissed me
I aint gonna let this one pass
’cause sucka really pi$$ed me
I’m gonna cap him in the A$$…

We got AKs, and Brownings
and pistols too,
with some practice
we might not hit you

*Nice description Jon James…

I think that Mr Tebbitts ever present senility is beginning to show even more, perhaps SeaLordLawrence would like to volunteer to give them lessons at shooting as well advice on what to kill, the local authorities might even have a few harpoon guns lurking in the council vaults that they could lend him.
I’ve just driven past the shooting butts at Andrewsfield, I was very tempted to ask them what they thought of the idea of a load of reprobate teenage druggies being let lose with a collection of AK-47’s, I decided that their comments might be a little too much for me today, after all it is Pancake Day, perhaps a national youth scheme on making pancakes might be more appropriate, and less harmful to the environment of course.

I totaly agree with it, at least if they can shoot straight it will stop a lot of innocent bystanders dying when they start killing each other.

Well said.

I totaly agree with it, at least if they can shoot straight it will stop a lot of innocent bystanders dying when they start killing each other.

oh god no, this is as bad as the lib dem proposal a while ago where they said joy riding kids should be given free go karting lessons, yeah logical eh. I’d honestly rather not have every kid being able to shoot, theres much more usefull skills that could be taught in the alloted time, how about teaching them how to cook, how to behave in public (not all youths need that though) , how to make a campfire etc, all more valid uses of time then having kids learn to shoot.

The sad fact is many of the feral kids of today would not even think of using a firearm in the correct and responsible way and firearms training won’t change that for them.

Edit: i guess one good thing would come out of this idea: the amount of innocent people hit by rounds fired from inept wannabe gangsters might drop quite rapidly, and with the added bonus we’d be free of the little thug that was hit accurately, hmmm maybe this is a win win situation afterall.

Excellent idea.

From a very young age I was taught to shoot, that includes all the safety, common sense and responsibility that comes with it. I feel that it endeared me with a level of responsibility beyond my years in general and gave a real understanding of how powerful a weapon a gun really is (A sense which I genuinely feel is eroded by Video games) furthermore shooting in the countryside gave an appreciation of the natural world, of which humans are a part, that is simply not possible otherwise.

In short, if managed properly this is an excellent idea, even better if what the kids shot was then served up for them at the end of the day to combine the lessons of responsibility and healthy eating/good food.