I guess Grey Area didn’t like my thread. I don’t quite understand why it was deleted because all I did was state my opinion on a matter (I thought a forum was a place you could do such things), and seeing as I didn’t personally attack anyone or their nationality, race, ethnic origin, religion, etc. I’m puzzled as to why it was deleted.
I wanted to respond to Arthur’s comments….
You use a lot of words to say very little, Coop…
It’s funny you say that because the same thought went through my head right before I clicked submit. I guess I just figured what the heck, and I clicked it anyway. A valid (& true) observation. I suppose I’m not trying to impress anyone with my mastery of the English language or my quick and pithy remarks though.
i say that the above statement has a lot more to do with a country’s ‘marketing’ than anything else
That may very well be the case, but then again one cannot deny the huge influx of people that want to come here. If it was all due to misleading marketing I think people would have generally figured out the ruse at this point in time. Is America for everyone? Of course not. That’s just human nature. Not everyone likes the same thing. It does appeal to a broad array of people who maybe aren’t concerned with such matters as international relations, and simply want to find a way to make a new, successful life for themselves. Human nature is as we all know, about self preservation when it all comes down to the nitty gritty.
Why the word ‘even’ here?
No disrespect intended, and you should know better than to accuse me of that. Perhaps it was a poor choice of wording, but that is all I’m guilty of in this case.
Perhaps a little thought should be spent on how it happened the world seems to have grown a bit more critical of the United States of America.
I have thought about it, and indeed as I said, there are many reasons people have to be rightfully critical of my country. I am critical of it at times, though not to the extent that the rest of the world seems to be. My point in all of this I suppose is that it almost seems to be a band-wagon thing to talk bad about the big, bad, old USA, when in reality I’d say that in the short time this country has been a nation (230 years this past July), we’ve done some remarkable things and brought a lot of good to many places in the world……in fact I’ll go out on a limb and say a lot more good than bad. I’m not just referring to our part in WWII (before anyone jumps on me over that), in fact I’m thinking more of the good will done through various organizations and the use of our government’s military might to provide humanitarian relief to parts of the world that have been hit hard over the years be it through natural disasters or disease or whatever else. Be honest….can anyone think of any one country that has done more than the United States has in terms of using its military resources for humanitarian relief? Certainly hundreds of nations have done great things in the name of humanity, and I mean not to belittle their contributions, but the USA has used its power and wealth in a positive manner in numerous occasions.
The problem with my pointing this out is that humanitarian relief and other such things will never gain the world’s attention like an Iraq-type situation will, and thus America is vilified for causing more good than it has bad. It’s like the news……when you turn on the news everyday I challenge you to watch ten different stories and then tell me how many were on good or otherwise positive topics and then how many were bad things or otherwise depressing news items. Bad news or bad things (or at least perceived bad things as I see in the case of Iraq) always get more press than the good.
This also goes back to the double standard that I see. As a more powerful nation we are held to a different, very perlexing (to me anyway) double standard. We are almost expected to jump in when it comes to something like humanitarian relief for a natural disaster in a third world country, and if we don’t, we are vilified for it. If we do, then it doesn’t make much news because afterall we are expected to. I can’t think of any other nation that is held to that same standard.
No it isn’t fine by you. Otherwise you wouldn’t have posted this. Otherwise you would have left this forum for a far more Americanocentric board. Despite what you are saying here, you are not that provincial and insular, Cooper. That’s one of the reasons i think you’re fun to have around here.
I suppose you have me on that one. I care, but I don’t at the same time I suppose. I’m tired of the constant theme that the world’s problems are America’s fault, and yet at the same time I’m getting really tired of hearing what the world has to say and I’m getting to the point where I really don’t care to listen anymore because as I said, we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. There is no fixing it…..especially after Iraq…..so why even care to try?
Fine by me, but unless the USA turns completely isolasionist overnight
I’m almost to the point where I think that’s really not a bad idea.
Boeing 787 Dreamliner
Such a pretty airplane can’t we use something like an F-16 instead? 🙂
I really, really, really don’t believe that anyone takes this “They hate us because of our freedom”-crap seriously.
The USA has been loathed by people like Amadinejad for years before there was ever an Iraq situation or even the Persian Gulf War in 1991 when the USA really started to get involved in the Middle East. I think it all boils down to our support for Israel. The freedom thing though is something I think causes us to be hated becuase when you look at nations like Syria or North Korea, etc. look at all the types of freedoms that everyday people (men, women, & children alike) aren’t afforded. America is not the only nation to have these freedoms, and I never said it was. It is simply the best example one can think of that exemplifies these freedoms. It’s not the first to grant women’s rights or rights to African-Americans, etc., but by the sheer virtue our our size, our power, and a world recognition, we are a prime example of those freedoms that many people in many nations enjoy. Regarding Bin Laden, I don’t think he was necessarily targeting America (if you’ll remember the Towers were full of people from all nations), but he was targeting America because it exemplifies an idea. Do you think hitting a big building would have the same psychological effect on the rest of the world if that building had been in Austria? Or Finland? Not even close. I mean they hit America…..the most powerful nation on Earth….one that supposedly could never be touched. Get where I’m going with this Art?
Don’t pretend to be some sort of sorry victim on this forum.
I’m not pretending to be anything. I’m simply saying that I know my views won’t be shared with the majority of the members here, and that’s fine by me. If I came off as sounding like a victim it wasn’t my intent. I wouldn’t be of very much use to my nation’s Air Force if I was acting victimized don’t you agree?
P.S. Here’s to hoping GA won’t delete the thread again…..if he does then perhaps I’m not as welcome here as I thought…..
By: Arabella-Cox - 5th January 2007 at 01:02
I dont think its that difficult to understand what you term as “complex political makeup” resulting from the many cultures of the US. By in large, white skinned people have it easier getting good paying jobs that dark skinned people. Im not blaming that all on white people, when you try and discover the cause of this, the issues do become complex. The fact remains that there is huge differences in standard of living between rich and poor compared to many western european countries. Ive only been to germany, and Ive noticed that they have no poor slum neighborhoods, not even for the Turks that live there. I think the UK accepts a lot more immigrants than other european nations, my impression from what I see on tv and movies is that the situation is better for dark skinned people in the UK than the US.
I don’t know about that………..I know many Afro-Americans and even more Latino’s. Many of which are doing better than me! In the US just look at all of the Star Athletes, Singers, and Actors. Clearly, things are getting much better in the US compared to many other countries for minorities. Also, I work in the business world and its very common to see them in high positions……..Regardless, I don’t want to get into any race issues……thing are getting better in most modern countries. Of course third world countries are another story………….:(
By: mixtec - 4th January 2007 at 19:00
Really, the US is made up of so many cultures its hard for outsiders to understand the complex political makeup. So, PHII maybe you should give them a break………….they condemn what they do not understand! Regardless, if we worked together we could solve many of the worlds problems instead of just pointing fingers all of the time! Which, is pointless and just plan counter productive………really such a waste!:(
I dont think its that difficult to understand what you term as “complex political makeup” resulting from the many cultures of the US. By in large, white skinned people have it easier getting good paying jobs that dark skinned people. Im not blaming that all on white people, when you try and discover the cause of this, the issues do become complex. The fact remains that there is huge differences in standard of living between rich and poor compared to many western european countries. Ive only been to germany, and Ive noticed that they have no poor slum neighborhoods, not even for the Turks that live there. I think the UK accepts a lot more immigrants than other european nations, my impression from what I see on tv and movies is that the situation is better for dark skinned people in the UK than the US.
By: Arabella-Cox - 4th January 2007 at 01:01
Very few people here have lived in a country long enough to be able to tell it apart from another country that they have lived in the same amount of time as the first country.
My point being that I never said I was an expert on foreign cultures, and despite what many of you believe about me I’m quite skeptical of the American media on many issues. (They can’t even name some airplanes correctly when they are shown on TV so what would cause me to think they know about more important matters…..)
With that being said, I don’t think I should be required to justify my opinion with a travel record although I did post it as a measure of being courteous to so many who’ve criticized me.
It is my opinion afterall…..
Really, the US is made up of so many cultures its hard for outsiders to understand the complex political makeup. So, PHII maybe you should give them a break………….they condemn what they do not understand! Regardless, if we worked together we could solve many of the worlds problems instead of just pointing fingers all of the time! Which, is pointless and just plan counter productive………really such a waste!:(
By: PhantomII - 3rd January 2007 at 23:26
Very few people here have lived in a country long enough to be able to tell it apart from another country that they have lived in the same amount of time as the first country.
My point being that I never said I was an expert on foreign cultures, and despite what many of you believe about me I’m quite skeptical of the American media on many issues. (They can’t even name some airplanes correctly when they are shown on TV so what would cause me to think they know about more important matters…..)
With that being said, I don’t think I should be required to justify my opinion with a travel record although I did post it as a measure of being courteous to so many who’ve criticized me.
It is my opinion afterall…..
By: Arabella-Cox - 3rd January 2007 at 16:11
Travel works both ways……………………and a vacation to Disney World hardly counts?:p
By: Grey Area - 3rd January 2007 at 11:17
Moderator Message
I’ve just checked the Code Of Conduct, and I can’t find any mention of PhantomII being obliged to justify either his foreign travel arrangements or his opinions to anyone else.
Just thought I’d mention that in passing…… 🙂
GA
By: megalith - 3rd January 2007 at 09:01
Hi Again PII,
Just as expected; Western cultures only. Please for your own sake make the effort to see a bit more of the world its inhabitants don’t bite, not even in Papua New Guinea!
Steve.
By: PhantomII - 2nd January 2007 at 17:58
Canada, England, and France
By: kev35 - 2nd January 2007 at 14:15
Steve.
PII is going to be going abroad to meet new and interesting people, and if he’s really lucky he’ll get to kill some too.
Regards,
kev35
By: megalith - 2nd January 2007 at 13:53
The real question that needs to be asked of Phantom II, is upon what does he base his view of the rest of the world when comparing it to the USA.
So Phantom II, how many times have you been abroard? how many countries have you visited? and just as importantly which countries? because if it’s just the USA and UK then you’ve only seen a thin sliver of western culture.
I’ll say this the more I travel the harder it is to see myself as ‘just English’ and the more I become just human. Drinking tea with street dwellers in Delhi is humbling, discussing the civil war with a Tamil and a Sinhaleese in Kandy both disturbing and enlighteing etc etc etc……..
Get out there see OUR planet, meet your brothers and sisters, go on do it, you’ll have no regrets
Steve.
By: Arabella-Cox - 1st January 2007 at 05:29
I would like to remind you of a certain hurricane that hit a city with a very french name. The hurricane was called Katrina. The humanitarian relief provide by the good, old US of A was none existant almost. Water, blankets and tents had to be airlifted from the UK to aid the people. And you are telling me that this is the most humain, and greatest nation on the planet, capable to provide humanitarian relief to nations on the other side of the planet, is not able to cope with it´s own disasters? How does that work out? I´ll tell you how it works.
If some country, lets call it far-away-istan, has a natural disaster, the good old U.S. of A will pitch in some helos to fly aid (paid for by other countries) to certain parts of the country that is held by militia factions favorable to the Whitehouse. All other parts of said country can eat **** and die for all the Whitehouse cares! So where is the great humanitarian effort you are talking about.
Let´s talk about the humanitarian aid the Good, Old, U.S. of A. is giving to Darfur in the Sudan. I fly in there (Sudan that is) every once in a while, with 40+ tonnes of aid. Can you tell me how much the U.S. of A. is providing there? And in real money, that is Euros??? I would be really interested to know. 40+tonnes in aid is worth a lot of money, and if you can show me that 25% is paid for by the Good Old U.S. of A., then I will be impressed.
PhantomII, You can be proud of your American passport (I put it like that because I´ve no idea of your background), but the rest of the world is not as stupid as you think.
You may want to do a little research before you go pointing fingers! While many Goverments give more than the US percapita. That amount doesn’t include the “Vast Amounts” given directly by Americans! Most of which comes from Private Citzens, Non-Profit Groups, and Religious Organizations. See most Americans unlike other countries don’t believe its the sole responsibility of the Goverment but of the “Individual”! Also, how about other forms of Aid like Building Bridges, Roads, Schools, Wells and just plan Infrastructure! Also, how do you think all of the Aid gets Distributed? Who Provides the Logistics? Who provides the Transport Planes and Ships to get the Aid to where it needs to go! Personally, I can see why PHII gets tired of the constant Anti-American Bashing. Its not that we can’t take the criticism……we just get sick of the half truths and down right lies………….Just like I say about the Media “Its not what they tell you but what they don’t!” As for New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina you have no idea what your talking about………..:p
By: galdri - 1st January 2007 at 04:23
in fact I’m thinking more of the good will done through various organizations and the use of our government’s military might to provide humanitarian relief to parts of the world that have been hit hard over the years be it through natural disasters or disease or whatever else. Be honest….can anyone think of any one country that has done more than the United States has in terms of using its military resources for humanitarian relief? Certainly hundreds of nations have done great things in the name of humanity, and I mean not to belittle their contributions, but the USA has used its power and wealth in a positive manner in numerous occasions.
I would like to remind you of a certain hurricane that hit a city with a very french name. The hurricane was called Katrina. The humanitarian relief provide by the good, old US of A was none existant almost. Water, blankets and tents had to be airlifted from the UK to aid the people. And you are telling me that this is the most humain, and greatest nation on the planet, capable to provide humanitarian relief to nations on the other side of the planet, is not able to cope with it´s own disasters? How does that work out? I´ll tell you how it works.
If some country, lets call it far-away-istan, has a natural disaster, the good old U.S. of A will pitch in some helos to fly aid (paid for by other countries) to certain parts of the country that is held by militia factions favorable to the Whitehouse. All other parts of said country can eat **** and die for all the Whitehouse cares! So where is the great humanitarian effort you are talking about.
Let´s talk about the humanitarian aid the Good, Old, U.S. of A. is giving to Darfur in the Sudan. I fly in there (Sudan that is) every once in a while, with 40+ tonnes of aid. Can you tell me how much the U.S. of A. is providing there? And in real money, that is Euros??? I would be really interested to know. 40+tonnes in aid is worth a lot of money, and if you can show me that 25% is paid for by the Good Old U.S. of A., then I will be impressed.
PhantomII, You can be proud of your American passport (I put it like that because I´ve no idea of your background), but the rest of the world is not as stupid as you think.
By: PhantomII - 30th December 2006 at 17:50
Now, years later, you are still on the same level. “We vs the rest”.
I think you forgot to refer to me as an ignorant, American redneck. You were quite fond of those types of personal insults years ago.
Besides, what’s so wrong with my point of view? It is my own, so why should I change it? What’s it going to directly affect anyway?
By: Ben. - 29th December 2006 at 15:21
hey Ben, Nice to see youre still lurking around here also (you remember who I am, right?). I’ll be very curious how you like the US, hope you can send me an email about how it turns out. Its really funny that you would show up on this topic, because the solution to the problems of poverty in this world are in my opinion political, namely the democratic socialist systems of government like you have in your country of Belgium as well as other northwestern european countries like France, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, etc. Ben, you spend so much time trying to blame the Americas domination of world economics as being bad (it is sort of bad, but europe is no better) that you never spend any time studying how to provide a better alternative. You should really study politics/economics instead of history since that seems to be an area of concern for you.
Ofcourse I remember you, Brad! Nice talking to you, again! 🙂
Anyway, I never said the America’s world domination of politics is bad as such. Neither do I say our social/christian democracies are a solution to problems such a world poverty. There are many differences between European states in fact, even between Holland and Belgium. Holland for instance is a lot more inspired by socialist cooperation while Belgium is more ‘liassez-faire’, at least when we talk about political institutions. And you are right stating European domination of world economy is no better. Dumping surplus goods on African markets is not that different from what the 19th century imperialists were doing.
Unfortunatelly, I can’t study economics because I got a scholarship from the faculty of arts, hence I have to study cultural related issues. Apart from that, i’m not so much interrested in political science. I do take a class ‘international relations’ though, which is compatible with my graduate history degree.
By: mixtec - 29th December 2006 at 15:00
hey Ben, Nice to see youre still lurking around here also (you remember who I am, right?). I’ll be very curious how you like the US, hope you can send me an email about how it turns out. Its really funny that you would show up on this topic, because the solution to the problems of poverty in this world are in my opinion political, namely the democratic socialist systems of government like you have in your country of Belgium as well as other northwestern european countries like France, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, etc. Ben, you spend so much time trying to blame the Americas domination of world economics as being bad (it is sort of bad, but europe is no better) that you never spend any time studying how to provide a better alternative. You should really study politics/economics instead of history since that seems to be an area of concern for you.
By: Ben. - 29th December 2006 at 14:06
Ahoi hoi,
I read your whole thread, PII. In fact, I even printed it out so I could have a thourough read while taking a bath. PII, eight years ago I was one of the first people on the forum, and you were already telling this paranoid crap 😎 Now, years later, you are still on the same level. :rolleyes: “We vs the rest”.
Oh BTW, your best dream/worst nightmare is coming true as I am moving to the US to study history at U-Penn. 🙂 I’m leaving next week.
Ben (Geforce)
By: mixtec - 29th December 2006 at 03:42
P2- Like many *certain persons of this world* you have the opinion that everyone is secretly jealous of you and wants to be like you because you are so cool, etc, etc.
Interesting that you think you know me so well……
Have we met in person?
No we havent met. I made my comment on your overall attitude about how you think the world thinks of the USA. And since I had to modify the comment you quoted to get past what is looked on as “insulting” on this forum, its ended up sounding rather dorky and does not get across my original intended message, which is a generalization about US attitude.
By: PLA-MKII - 29th December 2006 at 03:28
Fine by me, but unless the USA turns completely isolasionist overnight
I’m almost to the point where I think that’s really not a bad idea.
I never thought I could agree with you, PhantomII, my hats off to you for proving me wrong. But then, thats an almost
If you really want to see how the other side looks at things (no, I don’t think I could ever convince you), I might be able to help you.
By: PhantomII - 29th December 2006 at 02:51
P2- Like many *certain persons of this world* you have the opinion that everyone is secretly jealous of you and wants to be like you because you are so cool, etc, etc.
Interesting that you think you know me so well……
Have we met in person?
By: mixtec - 28th December 2006 at 18:24
response attempt #3
P2- Like many *certain persons of this world* you have the opinion that everyone is secretly jealous of you and wants to be like you because you are so cool, etc, etc. The US is actually a sucky place to live if you are poor. There are people who have to raise families on minimum wage who live hand to mouth and are condemned to a life of hardship. Thats the part of Americas unrestrained free-enterprise system that gets swept under the rug. The prosperity of the US comes from the fact that theyve sent out all their manufacturing work to developing countries and are able to do a higher level of informational type of work. Im not saying the US is wrong for doing that, but thats how it is, and a lot of people in the world are tired of it. But the main problem of world poverty is due to overpopulation. So no matter how poor countries develop, they will always have hungry mouths to feed. And since the US is the only major western country able to accept a large number of immigrants, naturally people want to go to the US.
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December 26, 2006 at 3:04 am