(Mainly Polish) Immigration to the UK

That’s good to hear, Spitfire Pilot! Not enough Brits here – most of the expat managers have moved on, now there’s an ever-growing number of English teachers settling down. A surprising large percentage are marrying Polish girls…

FlyingOko

Your welcome. I hear that the Poles that work over here for a year or so tend to go back home rich (because of currency exchange etc). Not to mention that a ticket to Poland is extremely cheap (about £10 last I heard). Thinking of going over there to see one of the lads who used to work with me.

Most of those [Poles] that I know are extremely polite and outstandingly hard working. They do their country proud.

That’s good to hear, Spitfire Pilot! Not enough Brits here – most of the expat managers have moved on, now there’s an ever-growing number of English teachers settling down. A surprising large percentage are marrying Polish girls…

FlyingOko

The Poles are stealing our jobs, that is a fact. Here in Scarborough, and other holiday places, hotels and bars which gave jobs to students in the summer are now giving those jobs to Poles, leaving the students without any income during the university holidays. That is not right.

We hear of other places which do not recruit British staff to replace those who leave – their jobs go to Poles.

We have spoken to people in the building industry who say that Eastern Europeans are a danger to other workers with their claims that they do not understand English when it suits them.

And, as someone who is unable to get a job, I say they should not be here.

That’s so they can pay them naff all to work huge shifts (and get away with it)

I have had the privilage of knowing and working with many polish workers (mainly college/university students who have come over here to improve their English language) and I don’t think I have ever met a nicer selection of people in my life.

Most of those that I know are extremely polite and outstandingly hard working. They do their country proud.

Why is it that we can’t get People who come here too follow the American example of , your’e American first . We need too think British first, otherwise you are creating apathy . This leads too fragmentation and suspicion. If people dont want too talk the host countries language, they are creating division . English speaking people will just ignore them, that cant be good for race relations can it.
Lets Communicate with each other please in English, if you cant speak English then you need too learn too do so. I cant make it simpler than that.what really annoys me is when I hear people talking nearby in their own language, I would really like too hear what they are talking about.Ok so they need too use their language otherwise they may lose it, but we also need too understand each other. If we can communicate we feel happy with each other, its as simple as that. Incidently if I were going too another Country too live, I WOULD make sure I could speak their Language…

I’m sure the indigenous population of the Costa Brava/Blanca share your sentiments…? 😀

Here in Jersey, despite our limiting housing regulations we’ve had a steady influx of Poles over the past few years, prior to that it was the Portuguese and prior to that the French.

I welcome the Poles with open arms, they’re polite, educated, hard working and in comparison to their predecessors clean. The resident Portuguese population vehemently refuse to merge into local society, small enclaves of Portuguese establishments have sprung up over St Helier and certain areas can feel somewhat intimidating to go through.

Recently a visiting minister from Madeira claimed that Catholic Church services in Jersey should be conducted in Portuguese as well as English. Ironic in some ways as the chief Catholic representative in Jersey is a Pole.

Like the UK local businesses especially the local construction contractors are complaining about the Poles under cutting them, and that a number of them haven’t worked in weeks. I found this strange as I have been trying to get an electrician to come and fit some outside lights for me for weeks. Despite promising to be here at a certain time, they fail to show. When you do get a local contractor to show up, his prices are 9 times out of 10 over inflated.

The Poles come to the UK to, in the main, do the jobs the locals don’t want to. Would those same locals take on the jobs the Poles are doing if they stopped coming, nah !!!they can get more on the Social.

Hmmm… And I came to this forum to chat about aviation and stuff…

I’m from Poland, live in Warsaw and am fascinated by this debate. I was born in London (Polish parents) and moved to Poland nine years ago, from a mixture of patriotic and economic reasons.

Reading this post, there are many misconceptions to clear up.

1) WW2: Could have looked a whole lot different if the BEF and their French “Allies” had waded into the Rhineland and Ruhr while Hitler was fighting his way through Poland. The Germans had precious few forces on the Siegfried Line. Hitler took a gamble and won – the Brits and French did not have the stomach to settle his hash there and then by opening a second front in September 1939.

2) Polish contribution to WW2: One in eight (over 12%) of German planes brought down during the Battle of Britain were destroyed by Polish pilots. Polish cryptographers did a vast amount of the early work to crack the Enigma code. Poles fought valiantly at Narvik, Tobruk, Battle of the Atlantic, Monte Cassino, Normandy (in particular Falaise gap) and Arnhem.

3) After the war, with Stalin’s goons having replaced the Nazis, some 200,000 Polish ex-servicemen stayed on in the UK. The 1951 census, pre-Windrush, showed Poles to be the second largest ethnic group in the UK after the Irish. Further waves of Poles migrated to the UK from 1956 (after de-Stalinisation), spiking in 1981 (Martial Law) right up to EU Accession in May 2004. As an ethnic group, they were exemplary. Very low crime rates, the second generation blended in seamlessly with the British host society.

4) The massive recent wave of Polish migrants in the UK is different from the previous two waves in that it is economics, not political in nature. It is driven primarily by British employers. Their demand is changing. There’s little need for unskilled/semi-skilled workers today. It’s engineers, architects, IT guys, project managers, pharmacists, dentists. For many years, young Brits have chosen to study humanities rather than sciences, and the labour market is desperately short of the latter. “Too many young people with degrees in Coronation Street Studies from the Polytechnic of Des O’ Connor”, said one UK employer looking for mechancial engineers in Poland.

5) Polish migrants are generally loved by the middle classes, whose gardens they tend, children they look after, companies they work it, farms they harvest etc. They have a solid work ethic which contrasts with the indigenous welfare-client class. The less-educated, unskilled/semiskilled Brits are increasingly fearful and resentful of a new wave of migrants ideally placed to take their place in the economy. As such, yes – migration is proving divisive. And as such, I’d be inclined to keep the Romanians and Bulgarians out of the UK labour market for the time being, until things settle.

6) Ukrainians and Russians are being let into the Polish labour market to ease labour shortages, most noticeable in the construction sector, currently undergoing a boom (buy your Warsaw flat now for 40,000 quid while you can!) due in part to EU funds helping rebuild Polish roads. The health sector, which should be squeeking, is not – yet at least. Poland’s health service had far too many specialists. London desparately needs 80 haematologists. Guess where they will come from. Poland will replace them from the east.

7) Home Office pundits and media commentators have all failed to see the pattern of ‘pendular’ migration between the UK and Poland. I fly to the UK regularly and flights home are just as full as flights out. It’s not stag parties and elderly holidaymakers enjoying an EasyJet break to a cheap city – it’s returning migrant workers that predominate. There might have been 427,000 registered with the WRS, but those figures don’t capture how many have returned home.

8) The UK was one of only three old EU countries to open their labour markets fully on 1 May 2004. But since then, another four EU members have done so. It’s the wretched French (again), the Germans, Italians and Austrians who, by limiting access to their labour markets, have distorted migration. After all, the EU should be economically, like the US. What’s the problem with poor people from Tennessee or Georgia seeking work in San Francisco, New York, Seattle or Boston? The same goes for free movement in goods and services and capital. Now, Dakota, Brits can indeed have a referendum to leave the EU – but then what? Look at Norway – it’s not a member, but it’s in the European Economic Area. The Norwegians have no say whatsoever in what happens in their biggest market – one of 475 million consumers. The UK will never leave the EU – too many UK jobs depend on it.

FlyingOko, Warsaw, Poland.

😎 Leave the EU !!!!!!!!!!!!

dakota

Yes I agree. And get the spelling and punctuation sorted out whilst they are at it. Then they will be better at it than you. 😀

Phil 🙂

I agree, perhaps I should take up a different Language 😀
_______________________________________

Why is it that we can’t get People who come here too follow the American example of , your’e American first . We need too think British first, otherwise you are creating apathy . This leads too fragmentation and suspicion. If people dont want too talk the host countries language, they are creating division . English speaking people will just ignore them, that cant be good for race relations can it.
Lets Communicate with each other please in English, if you cant speak English then you need too learn too do so. I cant make it simpler than that.what really annoys me is when I hear people talking nearby in their own language, I would really like too hear what they are talking about.Ok so they need too use their language otherwise they may lose it, but we also need too understand each other. If we can communicate we feel happy with each other, its as simple as that. Incidently if I were going too another Country too live, I WOULD make sure I could speak their Language…

Yes I agree. And get the spelling and punctuation sorted out whilst they are at it. Then they will be better at it than you. 😀

Phil 🙂

“You Americans….you LOVE your salads….but you HATE to pick the tomatoes for them!”

.. and that’s where the Mexicans come in 😀

Welcome to the same kinda situation the US is experiencing! We have the mexicans coming to America and looking for a better life and there is an upside and a downside to the situation…I for one am FOR the Mexicans but we have to make room for them…Hispanic comedian Paul Rodriguez said it best the other night on TV…”You Americans….you LOVE your salads….but you HATE to pick the tomatoes for them!”

M

ENGLISH LANGUAGE

Why is it that we can’t get People who come here too follow the American example of , your’e American first . We need too think British first, otherwise you are creating apathy . This leads too fragmentation and suspicion. If people dont want too talk the host countries language, they are creating division . English speaking people will just ignore them, that cant be good for race relations can it.
Lets Communicate with each other please in English, if you cant speak English then you need too learn too do so. I cant make it simpler than that.what really annoys me is when I hear people talking nearby in their own language, I would really like too hear what they are talking about.Ok so they need too use their language otherwise they may lose it, but we also need too understand each other. If we can communicate we feel happy with each other, its as simple as that. Incidently if I were going too another Country too live, I WOULD make sure I could speak their Language…

Did anyone see the cartoon in the paper this week, it went something like this……

“
….and another 970,000 contributions to the tax book will be a help!!!

The seem to rarely take any sick days anyway!!!

You are quite right.
But will the government put the money in the right places?

“That said it does all place a strain on our NHS srevices etc, when we are struggling to cope with the amount of people born here, let alone 1,000,000 or so more.”

….and another 970,000 contributions to the tax book will be a help!!!

The seem to rarely take any sick days anyway!!!

i must be honest i have mixed feelings about this.. living in Herefordshire we have got a huge number of imigrant workers mostly Eastern European working on the many fruit farms here. the trouble is most British people dont want to “pick fruit” for a living, as we seem to think this sort of work is below our standards. so as the saying goes “someone has to do it”. but walking around the high street on a Saturday afternoon and every other person you see speaks a foreign language worrys me a little. i think there should be more controls over the numbers and make sure most of our Eastern European freinds return home and help there Countrys healing process.

Quite right.
The government reckons there are around 450,000 people from the eastern block living over here. Of which 97% are in full time employment.
This does open up a couple debates.
Firstly the majority of jobs are in the hotel/restaurant business or the more meanial jobs like meat packing etc. These are jobs that alot of English people would rather not have to do, but a job is a job to someone who needs one.
As the average wage in england (or indeed the minimum wage) is alot higher than in Poland, then this makes an attractive offer for our Polish Friends.
An employer is more likely to want to pay someone £5.50/hour than more.
This leads onto the second debate.
Does the government make it too easy for English people to claim benefits, consider an average person getting around £100/week plus rent paid plus poll tax etc it’s no wonder people dont want to work for little more per week. (This isnt aimed at people who genuinely cant or are unable to to get jobs).
We do need people to help run and keep business’ in the U.K. and if using foreign workers helps then so be it. It has to be better than seeing all our industries moving abroad.
That said it does all place a strain on our NHS srevices etc, when we are struggling to cope with the amount of people born here, let alone 1,000,000 or so more.

Wasn’t there some ill feeling in the fifties to the wind-rush imigrations.I believe if any one wants to come here and WORK then good luck to them, most immigrant workers take on the jobs most of us would turn down as too manual or under paid.Just a thought as what the Spanish thought of the British retiring in the Costa’s bumping house prices up and only employing British labour.

and the Spanish are now apparently fed up with Non nationals retiring to Spain and depending on the Spanish health system to look after them when they fall ill!!!

You are correct about the “dirty ” job syndrome..here in Ireland we have a few eejets who are complaining about “their ” jobs being “stolen” by non nationals…these same people from my knowledge in a lot of cases havent worked in 10 years,mostly due to back injuries!!!!!

Most employers i know who have employed eastern Europeans are more than delighted with their work ethic & enthusiasm…they are hard working .well mannered and diligent.

More regulation of minimum wage and registration would be a solution.

Thanks for that Muflon. I agree with everything you say, except for the fact that the Polish influx in my town tend to keep together and make little or no attempt to ‘meet the natives’.

They maybe don’t. But I assure you that their soon-to-be children will form the part of ‘the murder capital of Scotland’ hand in hand with yours 🙂 In fact the Polish immigrants most often have the opposite problem: their children don’t want to consider themselves as Poles, learn the language etc. It’s not uncommon that the children can hardly speak with their grandparents in Poland.

I see that Ryanair are offering some attractive deals from Prestwick to Poland. I think I’ll embark upon a cross-cultural mission soon.

Wellllll, should I start another topic about the British “cross-cultural missions” behaving on Polish streets? 😀

Which bars do you recommend Muflon ?

That’s changing rapidly… when I visit Poland from time to time I have to ask my friends the same question 😉

Well.. first of all, I’m Polish :D, but I live in Switzerland (for a bit longer than the recent Polish migration wave started). Actually, I’m rather conservative when it comes to the immigration laws. In particular, I think that the Swiss tough immigration policy is correct, I hate to see it violated from time to time and finally, I don’t quite like what you’ve described as “walking in the street and not knowing the language of every second person”. Hovewer, I’ll try to defend my fellow countrymen a bit 😉

Consider one thing: contrary to the people that you call “the travellers” or the Muslims (nothing against them either), the Polish people that will stay in the UK for good, after one (or at most two) generations will just melt into the society. Indeed, we keep some relations among the immigrants of similar age, but we don’t create the “Chinatowns”, “Turkish Districts” etc. (well, OK, let’s forget Chicago for a moment :D). We don’t bring all-the-brothers-and-uncles to the new place as soon as we get the residence permit, like many others do. We don’t force our girls to marry (or even just meet) only the guys from the same ethnic group… etc., the list could be quite long.

Just the contrary, the typical Polish long-term migrant will just work hard and try to assimilate into the local environment as fast as possible. Even if just to be able to go back to Poland from time to time and pretend to be better than the others – look you poor guys, I’m British now! ;).

Most of the immigrants are relatively young. Soon, they will have children – probably more than they would in Poland, just because they will be able to afford it. Couple this with the demographic problems that practically all of the developed countries experience – and you’ll get my point. In the long term you might really win on what’s going on now. I won’t even mention the draining of Polish engineers, doctors and nurses 🙁 Did you know that already now there are some hospitals in Poland that are struggling to exist, lacking the qualified workforce? Guess where they all went?

For the short-term workers, I fully agree with BuffPuff. Yes, you can call it stealing the jobs (assuming that the are some English that would pick these), but no less that all the other globalization-related things like the call-centers, manufacturing electronics (…hey, manufacturing just about damned everything!) in China etc.

Thanks for that Muflon. I agree with everything you say, except for the fact that the Polish influx in my town tend to keep together and make little or no attempt to ‘meet the natives’. Fair enough when I consider my town once held the status of being ‘the murder capital of Scotland’ !

I see that Ryanair are offering some attractive deals from Prestwick to Poland. I think I’ll embark upon a cross-cultural mission soon. Which bars do you recommend Muflon ?