Aid Helicopters Fired Upon

So what do you guys make out of this now? Since most of you were all too eager to put the blame on the Pakistan army, how does this report affect your interpretation of the event?

WASHINGTON — A U.S. military helicopter delivering relief supplies to earthquake victims in Pakistan apparently did not come under fire earlier this month as initially reported, the commander of U.S. relief efforts in Pakistan said Thursday.

While he said the final report on the incident is inconclusive, Rear Adm. Michael LeFever said he was satisfied that a rocket-propelled grenade was not fired at the CH-47 Chinook helicopter flying over Chakothi.

“We didn’t think it was that kind of event when we reviewed the facts and so we’re continuing to fly,” said LeFever, adding, “We had an observer that thought he saw something and, at the end of the day, there wasn’t anything definite there that we could hold our hat on.”

There was road-clearing work being done in the area, and those explosions may have been mistaken for an attack. The aircraft was not hit, and relief flights were never stopped.

Meanwhile, LeFever said the U.S. and international communities are racing against time, struggling to meet the food, shelter and survival needs of the more than 3 million people left homeless after the Oct. 8 quake, which killed more than 87,000 people in the Himalayas.

source: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1104AP_Quake_Helicopter.html

Its logical – the aircrew wasn’t confused and it was a RPG launch at the helocopter– as SOC attested to and nomad described – the ground detonation and an RPG / missile launch are very different visual events.

As such the US aircrew was correct and the Pakistani Army was lying.

I really really want to know the answer to my question, therefore bumping this up.

Well frankly speaking I don’t care about the terrorist/freedom fighter thing but answer me if its possible for all of you…

How exactly can someone ‘trained’ to watch for an RPG launch confuse a ground detonation with an air launch of a RPG?
I would have said they could only if an RPG actually hit the earth cos that will produce a visible shockwave and enough dust to make it looks like a ground detonation. But because the RPG according to US crew was launched in the air and towards the aircraft how exactly did it kick up enough dirt to confuse a trained eye?

I dont think terrorism is major issue for most countries of that area after all why SCO insist on US leaving when they are fighting terrorists.
here is bigger issue which effects millions of people rather than thousands. and why he specifically insist on iran what about the others.

Corridors of Power

Anti-drug belt must be built around Afghanistan – Ivanov

MOSCOW. Oct 31 (Interfax-AVN) – Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov
hasproposed creating an international anti-drug security belt around
Afghanistan, with the participation of Iran.

“Heroin producers in Afghanistan annually earn about $30 billion. A
huge shareof this money flows out of Afghanistan to other parts of the world,
including Iraq, Chechnya, Indonesia, the Philippines and Western Europe,” Ivanov said on NTV television late on October 29.
“A security belt must be built around Afghanistan. I wouldn’t disregard
Iran’s capabilities in this respect. Iran is a long-standing fighter against
drug trafficking,” the Russian defense minister said.

http://www.atimes.com/ind-pak/CL04Df01.html
Afridi was a key player in the Afghan war of resistance against the Soviet Union’s occupying troops in the decade up to 1989. It is a matter of record that top US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officials believed in the early 1980s that they would never be able to justify a multibillion-dollar budget from the government to provide support to the mujahideen in the fight against the Red Army. As a result, they decided to generate funds through the poppy-rich Afghan soil and heroin production and smuggling to finance the Afghan war. Afridi was the kingpin of this plan. All of the major Afghan warlords, except for the Northern Alliance’s Ahmed Shah Masoud, who had his own opium fiefdom in northern Afghanistan, were a part of Afridi’s coalition of drug traders in the CIA-sponsored holy war against the Soviets

No, but this does seem a bit counterproductive, don’t you think?

No. Counterproductive to POK people maybe. Not to Pak Army. They don’t want non-Moslem NATO troops checking out all those “camps”.

There was no intention of deigrating anyone but stating the facts.

There were no facts in the sentence I edited out – just a generalised accusation aimed at an entire nation.

Do we supress honest conversation even though it may not be to the liking of a small group?

We do not. However, we do (and will continue to) remove insults and abuse aimed indiscriminately at entire countries, ethnic groups, religions and cultures.

If that is not to your liking, then I would humbly and respectfully suggest that perhaps there are other Forums elsewhere on the Internet that would be more in line with your requirements.

Of the three points I mentioned, please let me know what was not true.

I am not concerned about the three points that remain in your posting – you are quite entitled to your opinion.

It is the comment that I removed that concerned me, since it was a clear violation of Article 6 of the Code of Conduct.

Now, please continue to discuss the issues.

Grey Area – There was no intention of deigrating anyone but stating the facts. If the facts are honest, however do not show a particular countries/ethnic groups/religions/cultures in good light what am I supposed to do?

Do we supress honest conversation even though it may not be to the liking of a small group? I don’t think the families of 9/11, or the 7/7 or this past weekends bombings in India would think that was appropriate. How do you address the issue if you cannot talk about inconvinent facts?

Of the three points I mentioned, please let me know what was not true.

I will desist from posting on this thread then.

Thanks,
BnB

Err… Simple Terror Connections 1 through 1,000,000

1/1,000,000
No one disagrees the Taliban – formed in the 1990s was an extension of the Pakistan Army – infact had Pakistan Army officers in its ranks – and Pakistan was one of only 2 countries to recognize the Taliban.

2/1,000,000
No one disagrees that the the Pakistani military government supports terrorists in the Kashimr. Even the Pakistan President Musuraf was forced to admit it in Feb 2002.

3/1,000,000
Seikhm Mohomod – a key leader of Al Quida – was found in the house of a Pakistani Army official in 2003 in Islambad

…. this thing can go on forever.

Mod Edit – Do Not Remove:

I have edited out the final sentence of this posting.

You will not denigrate or insult entire countries/ethnic groups/religions/cultures on this Forum.

Nor will anyone else.

Thank you.

GA

okz npiz take your time..I’ll be off to sleep, tc…but well what i’ve seen on TV and everything (western channels)…they give impression that OBL and his Jihadi cos etc were armed by Americans to fight Soviets….I dont think OBL received any ‘specific’ help..but they sent many things to Aghanistan, so he may have received some sort of help indirectly or maybe directly…well that was my point.., but later on many of his companions joined his org…and then all the mess was left as it was…and then they found a new enemy and showed they have little respect for lives..a muslim or a non-muslim.

? ? and you’re refering to? no, I’m ot refering to that 100k Iraqis killed report.

Ah, I thought you were going to jump on the 100K dead bandwagon. I’ve got some stuff on those numbers I’ll put up later.

CIA? Well..Americans supported Bin Laden…armed them..right or not?? CIA or no CIA…what matters is it was USA.

The CIA/USA did not arm Bin Laden. I’ll be going over this in a bit when I have the time to type it all up, so bear with me for a bit.

o_0 you’re a mod?

lol just found out.

Give me a number. And if you come back with 100,000 prepare to be proven wrong.

? ? and you’re refering to? no, I’m ot refering to that 100k Iraqis killed report.

Who was it? Don’t come back and say the CIA, or prepare to be proven wrong.

CIA? Well..Americans supported Bin Laden…armed them..right or not?? CIA or no CIA…what matters is it was USA.

Citizens of…?

Indian Army.

For the record you can PM me as much as you want

😀

Yea , just how many civilians have you killed along?? urmm….collateral damage is it called?

Give me a number. And if you come back with 100,000 prepare to be proven wrong.

let me remind you who hired up Osama bin laden in first place? rings the bell?

Who was it? Don’t come back and say the CIA, or prepare to be proven wrong.

..7 million..*cough* *cough*

Citizens of…?

no, you can mention Pakistan as much as you want….but negative comments and insults have a difference..negative comments nobody minds, offcourse we would like to discuss it and defend our point of view…thats why its called ‘discussion’ forums.. and we’de do it very activly…but insults…thats different, not saying you’ve done that…but look ppl making one line cheap statements….thats unacceptable…

You’re right, pointed insults are uncalled for.

its just about 2 or 3 indians who have a free hand from mods to do whatever they, unless a PM is sent, nothing is done and you know its not nice PMing mods every other day.

For the record you can PM me as much as you want 😀

Gentlemen…. this thread is now skating on very thin ice.

Please try and discuss the subject without nationalistic rantings, jibes and insults – whatever the nation.

Thank You

GA

The difference is that we are not letting terrorists operate within our OWN borders. We are actively going about searching them out and, to put it bluntly, killing them off.

Yea , just how many civilians have you killed along?? urmm….collateral damage is it called?

Now if you bothered to visit the Pak-Afghan Border you’ll know how difficult it is to block it, theres a problem with some people who think spending 300 billion a year will solve every problem in the world..I’m sorry but that has only increased the problems in the world..let me remind you who hired up Osama bin laden in first place? rings the bell? who left the Afghanistan to rot..? rings the bell? who left the Pakistan to cope with 1000s of refugees, unstable neighbour, countless smugglers + sanctions and nuclear blackmail? rings the bell? nopes, World is wrong, you are the only right….the usual laughable attitude

What Kashmiris? Since when did Kashmir receive its independance from India?

..7 million..*cough* *cough*

Nobody expects a “100% job”. But we certainly don’t expect Pakistan to allow Al Qaeda to exist within Waziristan either. Nor do we expect them to allow militants to operate and exist in Kashmir.

Pakistan is allowing Al Qaeda to settle in? do you even bother to read the news? they woudnt be hiding behind civilians if that was the case…and you know..if you people had done your job right..there wouldnt be any in Pakistan….you had him cornered in Tora Bora.. Well.. also theoratically speaking, Americans allowed the sept 11 terrorists to exist within America. you say Expect? who planted these people in Pakistan and let them rise so that they can wreak havoc in Pakistan..first it was the americans..than the indians who brought there armies on the borders just to kill 100s of their own soldiers and go back home.
Did americans cared about Aghans? no..they never bothered until the wild zombies they let loose on Soviets came back to them saying hi.

Why is it that we can talk negatively about Russia, China, Europe, South America, the USA, and a host of other places, but the MINUTE you mention Pakistan in a less than completely favorable light, the forum erupts with a million voices all chanting that Pakistan is beyond reproach. Why is that?

no, you can mention Pakistan as much as you want….but negative comments and insults have a difference..negative comments nobody minds, offcourse we would like to discuss it and defend our point of view…thats why its called ‘discussion’ forums.. and we’de do it very activly…but insults…thats different, not saying you’ve done that…but look ppl making one line cheap statements….thats unacceptable…how would you feel if atleast 73,000 people died in your country and someone is allowed to freely post things like not to help the people who’ve been left alive..and then taunting and flaming….so you will receive replies in a similar manner……see how Indian threads are edited at instance theres a discussion going on in exception…thats the ‘hacking off’ point… few indians(Stressing that not ALL) come do whatever they want..but anyone else goes there…booomm…all the points you put into discussion are wiped off within 24 hours…and honestly we dont care whatever you want to say about China, Russia or whoever else is in the list…its just about 2 or 3 indians who have a free hand from mods to do whatever they, unless a PM is sent, nothing is done and you know its not nice PMing mods every other day.

Ignorance is a bliss indeed, you can think whatever you want, but thats not the case SOC.

I have plenty of examples to give about the ‘fair’ moderation, what comes to mind is the Signature ones…Indian members were putting all kinds of Anti-Pakistan sigs for like few months and weeks, than some of the Pakistani members came up with similar tactics..we saw mods going hush hush and instructing everyone to mind their signatures….

Only fair moderation leads to good quality of the boards, I’m sorry but constructive criticism should not be minded..The overall quality of the forums has improved alot alot since the days when only 1 person i.e. Webmaster had to take care of everything and it was indeed a very tough thing to do, but well..theres no harm in suggesting ways to improve the image of these forums.

Again we were discussing about wether or not a missile was fired, we had two points of view and that is what we were discussing right? until Nomad threw in a cheap line, but..now look at your own self..you didnt seem to mind it..and than you have the audacity to say this and that to us, offcourse you are 101% perfectly right, and we’ve done all the wrogns in the world.

Oh yes, won that argument, now you want me to solve the 50 year old kashmir problem too!? 🙂

You haven’t won anything yet, I was merely rather curious as to why you seemed to be ignoring the Kashmir situation.

We have near hourly post on this forum boasting just how high tech, advanced and well trained the Indian Army is, we are told that their men are giant heros who scare then enemy senseless and sh*t bullets, yet 600,000 of them cant stop infiltration acorss the LOC!?

We get the same lines from Pakistani posters extolling the virtues of such systems as the Hatf or JF-17, etc. And Pakistan can’t stop AQ from entering it’s borders either.

You dont suppose by any wild sense of your imagination that it could be Kashmiris in occupied Kashmir that are leading the rebellion themselves!? Or does that not fit into your preconvived perception!?

What Kashmiris? Since when did Kashmir receive its independance from India?

Rape? Care to point out any credible (reaD: Non-Pakistani) links to prove multiple rape cases in the past few years? I’m not saying they don’t happen.. heck, 4 cops were arrested in Bombay for rape, I don’t see you crying over the victims there….

Wipe Out?? Hahahahaaaa.. go sell your snake oil somewhere else..

This non Pakistani enough for you!?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1940088.stm

Authorities in Indian-administered Kashmir have arrested three Indian paramilitary soldiers following the gang rape of 17-year-old girl.
The girl was assaulted in Pahalgam, 90 km south of the capital Srinagar late on Thursday

Deputy Inspector General of Police Ashok Gupta told the BBC that a medical examination of the girl had confirmed that she had been raped.

The three Border Security Force (BSF) personnel were arrested after an identification parade.

The region’s Inspector General of Police K Rajindra Kumar said the soldiers would be brought to justice.

Justice

According to a report lodged with the police, a patrol of BSF soldiers entered the victim’s house on Thursday on the pretext of carrying out a search.

They forced the victim’s mother and uncle out of the house and three of them then raped the girl.

Mr Kumar said there were 15 BSF soldiers in the patrol.

There have been many allegations of rape against Indian security forces during the 13-year old armed conflict in Indian-administered Kashmir.

The Indian military and paramilitary forces have the power to search any house without a warrant.

About half a million Indian troops have been fighting militant groups in the region since a violent insurgency began in 1989.

Oh yes, won that argument, now you want me to solve the 50 year old kashmir problem too!? 🙂

Dude, its easy, let the “worlds biggest democracy” implement a UN resolution on a plebiscite, then you will get the answer to your argument. You expect Pakistan can stop all infiltration across LOC then let me ask you this. We have near hourly post on this forum boasting just how high tech, advanced and well trained the Indian Army is, we are told that their men are giant heros who scare then enemy senseless and sh*t bullets, yet 600,000 of them cant stop infiltration acorss the LOC!? You dont suppose by any wild sense of your imagination that it could be Kashmiris in occupied Kashmir that are leading the rebellion themselves!? Or does that not fit into your preconvived perception!?

Plebiscite? One of the conditions for that was that J%K return to the pre-1947 demographics.. care to send all your Punjabis and Pathans back to the plains and NWFP first? Don’t see that happening anytime soon…
________
SHIP SALE

dude, these are the same guys who Paksistan Army are trying to wipe out, mind you its ok for Indian Army to rape and murder in occupied Kashmir!?

Rape? Care to point out any credible (reaD: Non-Pakistani) links to prove multiple rape cases in the past few years? I’m not saying they don’t happen.. heck, 4 cops were arrested in Bombay for rape, I don’t see you crying over the victims there….

Wipe Out?? Hahahahaaaa.. go sell your snake oil somewhere else..
________
Halfbaked