Islam is not the enemy

The whole thing worries the crap outta me! 🙁

I can only see it going one way and it ain’t going to get better… 🙁

It bothers me to read and hear so many mis-guided Americans declaring that we are at war with Islam.

Scott

Scott, I don’t know what propaganda you’re hearing, all we get in this country is President Bush…and the “corporate media” you decry, go out of their way to AVOID blaming Islam. He makes the point so often he sounds like he’s running for Mayor of Cairo.
I defy you give one instance when Bush…or someone in power (not some nut) have said they blame all Islam.

Sure Kerry is not the best option but a better one as Bush.

Kerry is a throw away candidate. Plain and simple. the only way he gets in is if the dems can make the situation in Iraq seem as bad as possible. they ignore the gains made, and th egoood done, and instead focus on the bad things, hoping to get everyone thinking that Bush needs to go.

simply because Kerry has nothing to offer. He wants to make health care a RIGHT??
Hell, even TYLENOL is a privelige. Equating taxpayer funded healthcare with the right to free speech, the right of freedom of religion, and thr right to bear arms is insulting.

He ridicules Tax reform, clearly playing on the ignorance of his constituates.

He has claimed that he will get US forces out of Iraq ASAP,a nd replace them with European troops. you see, Kerry can get them to change thier minds…. so he says.

this is a guy that has the GALL to use his military service as a platform, despite the fact that he denounced it 30 years ago!

At least France, Germany and Russia were consistent from the start–they did not want Iraq attacked. Kerry PUSHED for saddam’s removal, unilaterally, in the 90’s. KErry Backed Bush in OIF, defending the war as recently as a YEAR ago. He even told a guy–to his face, ON camera, less than a year ago–that “if you don’t support the war, you shouldn’t vote for me.”

Now, his ENTIRE focus is how Bush lead us astray.

political oppurtunisim at it’s MOST disgusting.

2. The only thing we might have needed a UN resolution for was the removal of Hussein. Military action was already justified (and had been for the last 12 years up to the start of OIF) by previous UNSC resolutions. People choose to conveniently ignore this fact, it’s not good for Bush or Blair bashing. Why did we wait 12 years to deal with it? There’s a perfectly good reason for that, which I will explain later if anyone cares (don’t feel like taking the time right now, sue me).

3. Just because parts of Europe have anti-US governments doesn’t mean we are isolated by any means.

4. Being anti-war won’t get Kerry elected. It’ll just filter more Democratic votes to the idiot Nader. I do have a theory on the election-you’re either voting to keep your money or give more of it away. If Kerry goes in and starts all of this horrendous socialized health care CRAP, do you really think there won’t be a tax increase?

2. Yes it was a illegal war

3. There only goverments who against a illegal war

4. The proplem of the Democrats is they are not so agressiv as the Republicans

We don’t want them to see us as heroes. We want their people to see the freedoms and lifestyles available to Iraqis …

Tanks in front of there house?

They’ll still not like us anyway, given our illogical support of another brutal regime in the region which uses F-16s as terror weapons.

Its not dont like the US, its more hate the us and Isreal is no Regime

As the US invade Iraq the muslim world hate them why should they now see the US as hero?

We don’t want them to see us as heroes. We want their people to see the freedoms and lifestyles available to Iraqis and become restless with regard to their own situations (i.e. Saudi Arabia, Iran, to name a couple). What they think of us is really irrelevant. They’ll still not like us anyway, given our illogical support of another brutal regime in the region which uses F-16s as terror weapons.

Why do you think Iran supports Sadr? Clear case of an oppressive regime willing to do anything to make sure they stay in power.

1. There has already been one publicised incident in Iraq involving a Sarin-filled artillery shell going off. Sarin doesn’t magically appear out of nowhere, and last time I checked it was a WMD. Besides, thanks to the UN he had a few months to stash his stuff somewhere and make us look like fools while we sat in the Middle East with tanks and aircraft going “don’t worry, maybe next week”.

2. The only thing we might have needed a UN resolution for was the removal of Hussein. Military action was already justified (and had been for the last 12 years up to the start of OIF) by previous UNSC resolutions. People choose to conveniently ignore this fact, it’s not good for Bush or Blair bashing. Why did we wait 12 years to deal with it? There’s a perfectly good reason for that, which I will explain later if anyone cares (don’t feel like taking the time right now, sue me).

3. Just because parts of Europe have anti-US governments doesn’t mean we are isolated by any means.

4. Being anti-war won’t get Kerry elected. It’ll just filter more Democratic votes to the idiot Nader. I do have a theory on the election-you’re either voting to keep your money or give more of it away. If Kerry goes in and starts all of this horrendous socialized health care CRAP, do you really think there won’t be a tax increase?

IF Iraq succedes, the rest of the muslim world will not be able to ignore the fact that America helped Iraq, and the terrorists tried to kill innocents in order to HINDER the success of Iraq.

As the US invade Iraq the muslim world hate them why should they now see the US as hero?

IF Iraq succedes, the rest of the muslim world will not be able to ignore the fact that America helped Iraq, and the terrorists tried to kill innocents in order to HINDER the success of Iraq.

And that’s why the extremists are there doing what they do.

The only way forward will be with a Total Global Effort, this could have been a chance to do it but rushing ahead ( dressed up to a domestic public on the grounds of WMD) and more importantly without UN sanction was a major error.

It has left the US and UK totally isolated and now in a mire of their own making from which it will be very difficult to withdraw both politically as well as logistically.
The idea was right but the method and timing was completely wrong. It has left ‘the powers that be’ struggling to save their combined political skins, whilst young men and women risk ( and lose ) their lives daily and countless civilians suffer similar fates and for what ? Not the freedom of a nation and it’s people, but in the name of political posturing.
I don’t know what the answer is but I do know that it isn’t what we have at the moment.
Phil.

All the whole thing has done is concentrate a focal point where extreamists can find easy targets>>>>>>

Well, it also goes the other way around. Personally, I want these people concentrated in an area far away from our lands, and surrounded by as many US and UK forces as posisble. We are certainly better off with most of them there than hiding in apartments, being quiet, sneaky, developing plots to kill thousands OVER HERE.

I don’t necessarily feel it’s putting our troops “in harm’s way”. It puts THE TERRORISTS in bad situation. They have to defeat the US and UK military, as well as the Iraqi military. If they fail, Iraq will become an example of the FAILURE and evil of militant islamish terror beliefs and ways. IF Iraq succedes, the rest of the muslim world will not be able to ignore the fact that America helped Iraq, and the terrorists tried to kill innocents in order to HINDER the success of Iraq.

(By the way, I wasn’t referring to you saying that we were losing, it was a general statement)

Look at this, further info about Kerry. It supports what I said about him earlier.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/24/politics/campaign/24guard.html?ei=5006&en=188b1af7bff34b87&ex=1096689600&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=

Pluto, I don’t think that in either post I mentioned ‘losing’ and I am not about to step into the minefield of a discussion on the US political system

There is no doubt in my mind that Saddam had to go but, it’s the manner that the US, with us in the UK blindly following, went into Iraq that causes me grief. My biggest beef is with the United Nations, even the title is now a joke.
Where exactly are the WMD ?? that’s the whole thing was dressed up as being against. ??
All the whole thing has done is concentrate a focal point where extreamists can find easy targets.

Ahhh, but the George ‘dubbya’ and his associates would have had to start pumping their own oil much sooner wouldn’t they.
If Kerry wins ( he seems to be a good man ) his presidency will be blighted by having to try and pull the ‘west’ out of this mess.

As for Blair well………..the song they played at the victory party when they defeated the Tory’s was M Peoples “Things can only get better”.
This time round the country as a whole should be singing The Who’s “We don’t get fooled again”

Kerry? Kerry has said for YEARs that saddam was a threat, was evil, and needed to be removed from power. Until a year ago, Kerry supported the war for not only the wmd’s, but for the need to rid the world of saddam. th eonly reason he’s “Against” it now, is beacause half the country supports the war, and almost all of them are voting for GWB. If Kerry wants any hope of getting elected, it lies in the people who are against the war. So, he changes his stance.

Saying we’re “losing” in Iraq is utterly stupid. I have a friend in the 82nd, who returned months ago. His friends still there(many of whom care little for Bush or Kerry, and don’t care for the reasons for going to war) are disgusted by teh media reports of us “losing” over there. they are killing so many of the terrorists, and the Iraqis are doing a lot of it. almost all of the people they kill are NOT Iraqis.

Look at the recent bombings–people in line to become Iraqi police officers. These people KNOW they’re being targeted, yet they wait in line. It is ignored by the foreign media that most Iraqis want ALL the foreignn occupiers out ASAP. Currently, the US is HELPING Iraq remove the foreigners that are targetting and killing inocent Iraqis.

Most Iraqis want us to leave, but they want the foreign terrorists to go first.

i don’t care if you think the reasons for going to war were good or not. However, saying that we’re “losing” to the terrorists is simply incorrect.

Good write-up by SOC. Do i read a historian’s mindset there? 😉

Now why in the world would you think that? 😀 Incidentially I will be starting my Master’s in Military Aviation History this January. They are letting me take a class titled Strategic Nuclear Warfare. The world may never be the same.

But i think that for a large part, individual persons are to blame for skewered perspectives.

That may be true to an extent, but the real heart of the problem is Muslim society, not Muslim religion, I think. When you have a bunch of poor, uneducated people, and the Imam tells them the Koran says go kill Americans, why would they think any different? Personally, I think that if we just raised the literacy rates in Muslim communities, the terrorist idiots would have a lot more trouble recruiting new members. Might be wishful thinking, but I think it would work.

Islam- tolerance, some absurd but good laws, excellent economic system

.

can you go into detail about the economic system?

Islam- tolerance, some absurd but good laws, excellent economic system

Islamic extremism- total disobedience to Qu’ran’s tolerance laws, absolutely no rights, no economics at all

So Islamic extremism is not Islamic.
It is an anti-Islamic way of life under Muhammed’s guise.

whole thing is a complete bloody shambles!

We’d have done better just ‘observing’ IRAQ rather than create this bloomin mess! It hardly as if our own house is in order! 😮

Ahhh, but the George ‘dubbya’ and his associates would have had to start pumping their own oil much sooner wouldn’t they.
If Kerry wins ( he seems to be a good man ) his presidency will be blighted by having to try and pull the ‘west’ out of this mess.

As for Blair well………..the song they played at the victory party when they defeated the Tory’s was M Peoples “Things can only get better”.
This time round the country as a whole should be singing The Who’s “We don’t get fooled again”

whole thing is a complete bloody shambles!

Blair keeps telling us we are at war?!??? But yet we have free and open borders and let any tom,**** or harry in! :confused:

Then we let people burn ‘our’ flag in the middle of our capital then let em get away with it! The whole thing makes me sick!

Blair won’t get re-elected neither will Bush! THen they will release Saddam! Mad i know but nothing would supprise me.

We’d have done better just ‘observing’ IRAQ rather than create this bloomin mess! It hardly as if our own house is in order! 😮

“Islam is not the enemy”

Fully right.

Islam is not the enemy but it’s hard to distiguish when acts like (view link) this (if confirmed) are taking place in the name of Islam and no muslims around the world seem to be too upset with them or protest against such psychotic acts. Thwe Beslam massacre is still fresh in many minds and in a world where appreance is everything we don’t see muslims as a whole object to this kind of behaviour. I would like to see key Islamic figures speak against terrorism or a forum of muslims were this kind of behaviour is at least critizised

nonsense
To say too the Christ a Slayers because eg: Hitler was a Christ?

Good write-up by SOC. Do i read a historian’s mindset there? 😉

But i think that for a large part, individual persons are to blame for skewered perspectives. No matter how balanced the information you digest, be that for a navel-staring hick or for people like ourselves who think we’re all reasonably intelligent and connected people like us English-reading web-surfing internationally-debating folk. At some point you are likely to grow an opinion, be that balanced or not, and from that point on you tend to filter your information to the sort that suits your pre-existing ideas. Welcome to the world of dogmatics! At this point, people not only prefer to absorb information confirming their beliefs, but the level of information is also lowered since your opinion is already set so you don’t have to bother learning what you already ‘know’. With this process in mind, it’s quite easy to understand how a minor nuisance on the international arena like Iraq can suddenly become a threat to world piece. Or how a bunch of extremist muslim terrorists suddenly start representing the whole Islam. Or even how the Vanguard of the Proletariat becomes a new bourgeois aristocracy in less than a generation.
Thanks to mass media with it’s tendency to focus on a particulair issue for only a limited amount of time, such dogmas easily grow on large numbers of people. Up until the point where such dogmas can reach the point of mass hysteria – both the “war on islam”-mentality cbdst refers to in the opening post, as the anti-Israeli craze in large parts of the Middle East is IMHO just that.

Avoiding that is very, very difficult. Not only would you be forced to keep informed, but also to continuously try to counter your pre-existing notions. That’s not only tiring, it’s also really uncomfortable as you should be able to detach from opinions you hold on any given moment in time.

Gee, i’m rambling again. Sorry.

its more poverty and dihonoured feelings etc which lead to terroristic acts. There are plenty of muslims living in the rest of the world without the same values as te terrorists