Linux

Hasn’t Mac OSX got a Unix/Linux core?

It appears to me the biggest trouble with Linux, in all varieties, is that because of it’s nature of being developed by techies, they don’t understand user-friendliness because they know how to do it. I’m trying to get to grips with it but having only ever used Dos and various Windows incarnations, it’s quite a struggle.
I have a laptop with five operating systems on it (soon to be six, OS/2 Warp 4 for the hell of it) and by far the fastest is BeOS. As a virtually dead OS, there’s not a great deal of software about for it but it had great potential.
I’m playing with SuSE 8.2 and Mandrake 9.
So far SuSE appears easier.

Originally posted by Sherlock Linux is very configurable and you shouldn’t expect it to work flawlessly as soon as you install it, you have to tweak a lot of things…

Unfortunately this is where things fall down where new users are concerned. You cannot expect someone who just wants a usable system to have to tweak it. Until Linux has a 99.9% stable, self-installing desktop interface that works out of the box for everyone, your average Joe Punter will remain using Windows.

SuSE is almost there – I have been using it for 8 years now and love it. It has got to the stage where we can offer a machine running both SuSE Linux and Windows to computer illiterate family members and they are happy using either. However, I’d not expect them to be able to install it just yet by themselves – there’s always *something* that needs looking at afterwards.

I remain a Linux fan, but am currently spending most of my time on Mac OSX. This has the stability of Linux, with the user-friendliness that Joe Punter expects. OK, you don’t have the range of games available as you do for Windows, but then not everyone plays games….. Horses for courses…. It’s still a great system.

Of course they do. You will have to recompile software only if you are using a different platform, like a powerpc, or an Intel64, or things like that. But yes, everything will run on different distributions.

I’m personally nor a Linux fan, but I’ll have to install one tonight… :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Sherlock
What are you talking about? All Linux software DOES run on all Linux distros, because every version of Linux has the same Linux Kernel (at www.kernel.org). The kernel is the piece of software which communicates between the program and the hardware.

I havent used linux yet, so I cant say, but Im quite sure your wrong. Anyone with linux experience can say whether or not all software runs on all dists of the same kernal version?

What are you talking about? All Linux software DOES run on all Linux distros, because every version of Linux has the same Linux Kernel (at www.kernel.org). The kernel is the piece of software which communicates between the program and the hardware.

I have a 40g harddrive which makes funny noises but still works, so I plan to use that for a dual hd setup and install Mandrake, Red Hat and Suse on partitions to mess around with and see which I like best. Suse is the real full featured one that comes on 7 CDs but is more complicated to use. I wish the linux community as well as bussiness/government would make some common linux compatability standards so all linux software would run on all dists. As the saying goes, united we stand, divided we fall. Its interesting to note that linux was just Linus Torvolds attempt to take a OS (minux) that was written only as a teaching aid in a book for computer sciences students and never intended for acutal use and make an actual working OS out of it. Linus´s original linux was just a tiny kernal program that couldnt even boot on its own. Once he posted the source code on usenet, hundreds of fustrated programers all over the world jumped at the chance to develope this into something serious as they were tired of giant computer companys withholding all the control to operating systems. Hurray for open source!

I just completed the installation of RedHat on one of my machines.

Good job… By the way Redhat is just one of many distros… You may want to try several other just in case you find one you like better.

I tried it once, and it was very slooooow. It was nearly unusable in fact.

You gave up too soon. Linux is very configurable and you shouldn’t expect it to work flawlessly as soon as you install it, you have to tweak a lot of things… For people new to Linux I would recommend something like Redhat or Mandrake because those two are easiest to tweak, with all the gui’s.

Everyone who’s anyone uses Linux… Many countries are using Linux on their government computers. But not my country, the stupids just signed a deal with Microsoft.

I hate Linux.

I tried it once, and it was very slooooow. It was nearly unusable in fact. And on the same system (Athlon 1Ghz, 384Mb) XP Pro works perfectly.

Also, it is not very intuitive. You have to type cryptic commands to do things, just like MS-DOS which I stopped using in 1995.

I won’t be installing anything for a while, got FS2002 before I got my computer and it’s still sitting in the box, I need a memory upgrade, a graphics card and stuff before I install anything else, I won’t be tempted to treat my computer as a games machine, I have a Playstation 2 for that.

Originally posted by dhfan
Mixtec, you might be alright in the States, but a distro download can’t even be considered with a modem. Despite what the governing idiots say, broadband is only available in big towns and cities in the UK.

When you buy a distribution, what you’re paying for is manuals and support. I bought SuSE 7.2 Pro last year, about 4 inches of manuals, 90 days support at £29.
Microsoft manuals now are about 40 pages saying how clever they are (sic).

I think I read a few months ago that all council desktops in Denmark are moving to Linux.

What its going to take is enough bussinesses and governments converting to linux that finally some common standards will be formed and linux will finally become the OS of commerce. The dists as you describe just want to load people up with manuels to try to getthem hooked on their little linux turf. Not at all what opensource is aboutl.

I would never agree with Microsoft on principle.

I wish my country would switch to Linux. But no! They just recently signed some kind of agreement with Microsoft. Bunch of fools…

The only reason I still have Windows is because most games don’t work with Linux.

Mixtec, you might be alright in the States, but a distro download can’t even be considered with a modem. Despite what the governing idiots say, broadband is only available in big towns and cities in the UK.

When you buy a distribution, what you’re paying for is manuals and support. I bought SuSE 7.2 Pro last year, about 4 inches of manuals, 90 days support at £29.
Microsoft manuals now are about 40 pages saying how clever they are (sic).

I think I read a few months ago that all council desktops in Denmark are moving to Linux.

Interesting article elp. Id like to mention that there is no reason to pay “retail” prices for any linux distribution, because its opensource, ALL open source software is freely available and downloadable for any and all use. The linux dists are trying to imitate MS by the “charge to use” method. The whole idea of opensource is to stop software companys from owning every little application and standing next to these bridges of utility like trolls collecting money from everyone who passes. The idea is too bring back software to the grassroots level where the owners of the software are in control of their softwares development, which makes the Microsoft-Germany’s spokesmans comment even more funny:

” Microsoft Germany spokesman Thomas Baumgaertner contends that open-source software can get more expensive in the long run because of training costs and add-ons, such as administrative software updates.
“The cost analyses are in Microsoft’s favor,” he said.

Thats exactly where the linux dists should be putting their attention, in the aftermarket and service of linux systems, but theyre not. A sad shame.

I also want to mention that the Mexican
govenment has switched to linux.

There are some city governments in the US that are doing this too. (cost driven I.T. structure) EP
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German town opts for Linux in official work
By David McHugh
ASSOCIATED PRESS

SCHWAEBISCH HALL, Germany — At first glance, there is nothing cutting edge about Schwaebisch Hall, a provincial German town of crooked, medieval streets whose biggest employer is a savings bank.
But Schwaebisch Hall has jumped to the forefront of a growing technology movement by replacing Microsoft software on all city computers with open-source applications based on the free, unproprietary Linux operating system.
It is the first city in the world to do that, say local officials, who note the switch will save money, improve security and end dependence on one supplier.
Such companies as Deutsche Telekom and 7-Eleven, as well as government agencies in Germany, France, the United States and other countries, are relying increasingly on open-source software for heavy data lifting, mostly on servers that do Internet and database work.
But Schwaebisch Hall’s decision to adopt the software for everything represents a breakthrough, said SuSE, Germany’s leading Linux distributor, which swung the deal to make the switch.
SuSE credits the move to its user-friendly Linux desktop products, which make it palatable to the average computer user who wants only to deal with a graphical Windows-like interface.
“This is the first customer that has said, ‘This is the platform that our future is going to be taking shape with,’ ” said Stefan Werden, a senior SuSE sales engineer.
Open-source software is based on the principle that anyone using it should be able to scrutinize the source code, or inner workings, to make changes and improvements, rendering it, at least in theory, more transparent as well as more secure.
Corporations such as Microsoft keep source codes secret so that they can sell software at a profit, say open-source advocates.
The open-source software can be copied freely by the more than 400 new Linux users employed by Schwaebisch Hall, which is encouraging them to copy the software on their work computers for home use.
The basic version of Linux, the most popular open-source operating system, was written in 1991 by Finnish programmer Linus Torvalds, but for years its use was limited because it was complex and incompatible with most popular consumer-oriented programs and games.
By year’s end, Schwaebisch Hall, working with Nuremberg-based SuSE and IBM Germany, will have switched all 300 desktop computers and 15 servers recording tax payments, business licenses and library checkout records.
Mayor Hermann-Joseph Pelgrim says the key factor is money: “We expect to save a six-figure sum. … Our employees are proud to be helping with the consolidation of the city budget.”
City officials say it costs $88 to equip each desktop computer with open-source software, compared with $480 for new editions of the equivalents from Microsoft, by far the dominant producer of proprietary desktop software.
That, they say, adds up to a one-time savings of $121,000 — a considerable sum for a town struggling with declining tax revenue.
“There are plenty of signs right now that the open-source idea is very viable, for the pure and simple reason people are looking for cost savings,” said Charles Homs, senior researcher at the Forrester analytical firm. “So it’s not so much a philosophical question of ‘Do I support open source or don’t I?’ but ‘How can I save money?’ “
But for Matthias Setzer, head of the local Volkshochschule, or community college, which is doing much of the retraining, higher principles are in play.
“As a democratic society, we should not support monopolies,” he said, adding a gentle dig, “Freedom of choice — it’s the American way, isn’t it?”
Schwaebisch Hall, in southern Germany, joins the Extremadura region in Spain, where the local government has put on an effort to convert government computers as well as home machines of more than 1 million people in the region by distributing copies of the Linux system.
Companies such as SuSE and Red Hat, based in Raleigh, N.C., bundle Linux-based programs and charge customers for the packaging as well as the support and consulting services.
The German government made a deal in June with IBM and SuSE to outfit Interior Ministry computers with open-source software.
Microsoft Germany spokesman Thomas Baumgaertner contends that open-source software can get more expensive in the long run because of training costs and add-ons, such as administrative software updates.
“The cost analyses are in Microsoft’s favor,” he said.
SuSE officials wouldn’t say how much they charged Schwaebisch Hall for the deal, under which the company will provide technical support for five years.
“As the first customer, they got a special price,” was all Mr. Werden would say.
One hurdle for Schwaebisch Hall: Linux’s reputed difficulty for desktop use.
Mr. Pelgrim, a self-described non-techie, led the way by having his computer changed over first.
“From what I can see, Linux is something good and no big change from Windows,” said librarian Elisabeth Guechida, who keeps the library’s computers running though she is not a computer specialist. “There’s a mouse, a keyboard and icons. I personally find it interesting to learn new things.”

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Not browsing with it yet, this old nail of a PC’s got Windows 95 on it. I’ve no intention of ever using XP, don’t believe people need NT for home use.
Set up a laptop to play with Linux and other systems, before loading a tower up.
I use Partition Magic all the time, specifically the DOS boot disc and never had any trouble.
The laptop currently has Windows 98SE, Windows 2000, BeOS 5.04, SuSE Linux 7.2 Pro and Mandrake Linux 9.
Mandrake 9 was certainly a doddle to install but SuSE didn’t cause any problems either.
Just ordered SuSE Linux 8.2 Pro. Seem to have a few issues with KDE2 and Konqueror on the earlier version, not as stable as reputed.
Was going to try OS/2 Warp again as well, which I quite like, but I’ve only got V3 and it doesn’t understand a 20 gig drive.

Biggest problem for me is a culture shock. I came to computers relatively late in life, 40 ish, and have only ever had PCs. No experience of any OSs other than various flavours of DOS and Windows. I would guess that people with more background experience and growing up with computers would get to grips with it easier than me.

I have a dual boot with Mandrake 9.0 and Win XP… I used Partition Magic and it worked fine. What was that about drive letters? Linux doesn’t use drive letters, and Windows XP does not even know about the Linux partition.

Installing Mandrake couldn’t be simpler, the only part that you need to be careful is the partitoining part, you gotta make sure you don’t accidentally wipe your windows partition. The easiest way to do it is from Window start Partition Magic, reduce your Windows partition by as much space as you’ll need for linux (say 5 gigs) so that means that now you have 5 gigs of unpartitioned space on your hd. Then when you start the mandrake installation and it asks you how to partition the drive, select the unpartitioned space and create a Linux native partition of about 4.8 gigs and a Linux swap parition of 200 megs. The rest you can probably figure out yourself, it’s very simple…

You will be able to access your Windows files from Linux, but not vice versa.

I plan to install linux on a partion to use only for internet browsing as linux doesnt attract all the malicous crap on the web. I plan to use Mandrake as they say thats one of the easyier dists. Im going to wait to do a clean install rather than try to use Partition Magic as Im worried about my programs not recognizing the new drive letter. Anyone out their install linux with Partition Magic?