Ming sub 361 accident; 70 dead

Heard the one about the diesel sucking air out the ship…dont buy it at all I’m afraid!.

Our subs have monitors to keep track on the air pressure in the boat and, with dielectric boats with big engines, the relative high chances of a wave washing over the snorkel and causing the diesel to suck internal air are such that I cannot imagine anyones boats NOT being fitted with a similar monitoring system. The analogy would be someone deciding to economise on a car design by ommitting the brake lights.

The other thing is that reserve air group valves are usually not more a few feet from someone who knows what they do and, again, there should be compressed air storage enough to repressurise the boats atmosphere, certainly enough to forestall hypoxia and asphyxiation very speedily to hand i.e within a very few seconds of the effects of oxygen deprivation being noticed. If nothing else everyones ears popping should have been a good indicator of an air pressure drop in the boat and actions to remedy these situations should be amongst the first lessons the crew had before they set foot aboard the boat!!!

Some people have commented, like Crobato originally, on some form of gas leak in the hull that, somehow, remained undetected while it poisoned the crew and had physiological effects that caused death so swiftly that none of the crew were able to get an SOS off. Can’t think of a substance commonly found on a boat that would fit those parameters?

Hell of a mystery now!

China seems to be able to keep old relics like this in excellent condition – outside of the odd mishap or two or three.

There was speculation from JDW that the last boat built, which was stretched 2 meters, was being tested with AIP. It’s debatable whether 361 had it too…. Or it could be the diesels sucking the air out. But like you said, it will be hard to find out, unless the current new government is really embarked on more ‘open-ness’.

I guess the mystery will live on just like most of what happens in China.

I didn’t know that the Mings had AIP capability, if so a good question would be, when did they get this? A better question would be, how did they fit it to a sub as old as this?

Interesting, some theories are that it was an AIP malfunction since everyone died at their posts. Also, the accident may have occurred 2 weeks ago at a depth of 10 meters, but since the submarine was on a no-contact drill, they didn’t discover it until recently.

I don’t know about that Ja.

Some screen caps posted by yellow-pimp in the CMA forum were taken by CCTV when the sub was towed back to Dalian. No seawater found inside, sub looks pretty intact.

I read today in the Sydney Chinese Times (05/05/03) that a fracture in the hull caused the loss of the boat, it was reported that it was at a depth of 180 meters down and never came back up.

1. I didn’t know that the Ming’s nor the Romeo’s were rated for such a depth, being single hulled the deepest they’d go would be max of 150 meters (Same as what we did on the old O Boats). Sure we could go as deep as 210 meters but no commander in his right mind would go beyond 10 meters of recommended safe level!

2. Yes they did had trainees aboard, infact they had 45 trainees on strength. This would fit in with the PLAN’s fast aqusition of more Kilo’s. They were using the old boat to give the new trainees experience in under water opps. The boat had a skeleton crew and the rest were all trainees of all departments.

3. What I’d like to know is What is the reported depth of those islands compared to the actual depth?

Very sad indeed, as has already been said dying in a sub is a terrible way to go.

I’m sorry to hear this bad news Crobato. I will pray for those and their families.

At least one can say that they died doing their duty to their country.

Nonetheless, this is very disheartening news.

God Bless them and their families.

Too many questions regarding the incident. The most likely accident was something that could have caused toxic fumes to escape into the sub’s atmosphere. This is horrible since this is the equivalent to an underwater gas chamber.

Authorities themselves might want an answer as to what is the nature of the accident and what caused it.

Perhaps the ship is in a training mission which is why it had more people than it was supposed.

There isn’t anything to suggest it’s a type fault but maybe you’re dealing with old equipment. This might force earlier retirement of old subs and spur acquisition of new replacements.

Also, PLA Navy ships, especially the old ones, have a genuine problem with regards to safety measures and damage control. It’s traditionally has been the poorest budgeted and most neglected of the PLA services. During a visit to Hawaii, one of the PLAN destroyers, I believe one of the Luhus, had a breakdown on the water filtration system. The US Navy sent people onboard to bring supplies of fresh water to the ship and offered assistance, and while there, observed that the Luhu had very poor safety and damage control.

The incident is sure to send shockwaves to the PLA and the CCCP leadership that may force them to reevaluate safety standards aboard the ships and hurry even more the replacement of old equipment.

Dying in a submarine has got to be one of the worst ways to go out. At least on a ship or plane, you could jump or eject and hope for the best int the sea or in the air, but def. not at 20,000 leagues under the sea.

poor souls, whether they be Chinese, Russian, or any other nationality, they’re all humans.

Which brings me to wonder, why do ppl like being submariners? having to stay below the surface for months at a time smelling recycled farts, that would be enough to drive me away.

Indeed very tragic news….I’ve been aboard the old UK O class boats, same as Ja’s had time on, and I’d not wish to think about the last few hours those men had. The images that such a thought conjures up are simply horrific.

Is there any news on what caused the sinking yet Crobato?. Have any of the other Ming boats been recalled or had deployments cancelled that might suggest a type fault?

One thing I noticed was that the crew complement reported lost was 15 hands stronger than the normal required aboard the Mings of 55. I wonder if this was a training deployment and the extras were apprentices or midshipmen? Makes the tragedy even worse, of course, but it may also be a factor in the boats loss.

Respects to those still on patrol.

Well that is very bad news indeed.

Some of us from the Sub community didn’t even know that the PLAN were still using the Mings! To answer the question above, They are only SS’s. Not SSK’s nor even SSN’s, in fact they are old “Romeo’s but with cheaper parts” as quoted by and old sub buddy of mine!

May they rest in peace!

Sad news Crobato , condolences to all the families involved.

Shocking news, I just picked it up off the wire. Wonder what happened.

Is the Ming an SSK or an SSN?

If the submarine was quickly salvaged, its possible they had an onboard release of Halogen fire-retardent gas or noxious fumes from the diesel power plant, causing suffocation of much of the crew in the rear compartment.

Clearly some of the command personnel survived long enough to save the ship and put out a distress signal.