I suppose you know the Miss Universe, beauty contest will held in Nigeria this time. Nigeria, a place where sharia or islamic law still occurs. So a woman will be stoned for being adulterous. Many countries are pushing hard to avoid this shameful sentence to happen. Only a few countries have decided to boycot the contest (the Spanish girl forced by the Spanish parliament) but the point is that only a “few” won´t go. Greed is more important than human life. Shame for all this brainless Miss….soul uglyness.
By: Arabella-Cox - 27th October 2002 at 18:32
RE: Beauty contest shame
Indeed I am not writing them off, I am just suggesting that they are after trade and commerce… not trying to become a western country… just earn a bit of money to improve living standards for all via legitimate trade.
By: keltic - 27th October 2002 at 10:02
RE: Beauty contest shame
Of course they won´t be a major power, probably in terms of regional scope. But don´t understimate the influence of Nigeria in the whole African continent. With South Africa they are a major player in Africa.
By: Arabella-Cox - 27th October 2002 at 06:33
RE: Beauty contest shame
“Well, simply the paradox of a country which is making big effords to enter in the Western world, “
I would suggest they want to trade with the West… not introduce its vices’.
How often is a coutnry like Nigeria going to get the opportunity to stage internation events?
I don’t see them has having the power or influence necessary to get the Olympics or other event like that…
By: keltic - 26th October 2002 at 13:27
RE: Beauty contest shame
>
>”many issues at this topic which originally I wasn´t even
>considering. “
>
>Would you mind spelling out what you were considering when
>you posted this thread… I really would like to know.
>
Well, simply the paradox of a country which is making big effords to enter in the Western world, which makes beauty contests and a country which tolerates this sentences (lapidation). Nothing else.
By: Arabella-Cox - 26th October 2002 at 11:56
RE: Beauty contest shame
“Wowww. GaryB. I love your mental vitality to be able to jump to different topics at the same time. “
Very few things are isolated and unrelated to other problems.
As you mention in another thread things are rarely black and white…
“Children explotation, justice, South vs North….human resources….ufff. “
A poor family will send its children to work… that will always happen. How do you define exploitation?
Many in the west seem to think that any child working is exploitation.
Others seem to draw the line at child prostitution or bonded labour as exploitation. The problem of course with these definitions is that the customers for the former and the companies that encourage the latter are often western or at least foreign.
The problem with justice is what is it?
In many societies it is organised revenge.
In others it is merely punnishment to prevent repeated violation.
For Western societies now they seem to prefer rehabilitation.
Who is right?
If we don’t know or the answer varies with the crime or the criminal involved then how can this justice be imposed on others?
“many issues at this topic which originally I wasn´t even considering. “
Would you mind spelling out what you were considering when you posted this thread… I really would like to know.
“Traditions have always been an easy way to justificate really bloody habbits. “
Traditions, Religion, political ideology… as with any excuse if you take it away another will be found…
By: keltic - 26th October 2002 at 09:17
RE: Beauty contest shame
Wowww. GaryB. I love your mental vitality to be able to jump to different topics at the same time. Children explotation, justice, South vs North….human resources….ufff. You are bringing many issues at this topic which originally I wasn´t even considering. Since you add interesting thoughts, but too general, I´ll open different topics. I am not really fond of intervention in other countries affairs, because as I mentioned the world is diversity. That´s the theory, but a country which claims to be accepted in the Western world can just have a menu a say….I get this but I don´t get this. Traditions have always been an easy way to justificate really bloody habbits.
By: Arabella-Cox - 26th October 2002 at 00:43
RE: Beauty contest shame
“I don´t really see lapitation of a woman for being aldulterous, part of their culture.”
What do you see as objectional?
Is it that the law applies only to women?
Is it that you think the punnishment is too harsh?
Or is it that the groups who impose the law are not abiding by the country’s law… but imposing their own law?
“You mention China and the US. Well I also dislike death penalty. But we can´t mixed up things. “
So you are happy with the situation where the “First world” can impose its beliefs and customs on poorer countries to get them to conform to Western Ideals with the carrot that if they do conform they will be asissted out of their poverty and isolation?
Oil and mineral riches will be taken from such countries with a few heads of state making a little money while the Foreign companies get richer. The local population not only do not get any financial gain apart from the possible priviedge of making Reeboks for $1 a week, they are also told by their own government that their beliefs and customs are wrong and they should change…
Looking at US TV based science fiction… the moralistic ideal should be a prime directive of non-interference… shame more in the West don’t think about this more.
Still I am sure Nigeria will be better off with the Western model of justice…. Justice for all… except for those with the power or money to get out of it… very noble.
By: keltic - 25th October 2002 at 17:31
RE: Beauty contest shame
>”It worked in Pakistan when that girl was rapped by a
>tribunal”
>
>Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t that a case of one
>fanatic tribunal?
>The whole thing was handled internally, with Pakistani
>outrage at what was done leading to action… nothing at all
>to do with outside pressure… though it was reported
>elsewhere of course.
>
>”There´s not many things to happen in Nigeria, and this
>tacky show is being considered by them as a big promotional
>mean as a modern country. “
>
>So you think isolation and condemnation will help the
>Nigerian people change their laws and culture…?
Allow me to correct you dear Garyb. The Pakistani case was solved internaly when the international media discover the story and showed it to the world. All countries have the right to decide what type of laws and culture want to have. I respect diversity and traditions, but should we respect all traditions when these are based on brutality discrimination…?. I don´t really see lapitation of a woman for being aldulterous, part of their culture. I remind you that Nigerian Supreme COurt and law forbids this atrocity, but it seems that they don´t dare to impose the national laws to islamic and tribal traditions. Nigeria wont be isolated, because we live in a world where pragmatism dominates. And trade is trade. But boycotting this show, it´s a good and symbolic way from civil society to show disconform. The main symbolic meaning is women beauty versus women discrimination. You mention China and the US. Well I also dislike death penalty. But we can´t mixed up things. 🙂
By: Arabella-Cox - 25th October 2002 at 04:45
RE: Beauty contest shame
“It worked in Pakistan when that girl was rapped by a tribunal”
Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t that a case of one fanatic tribunal?
The whole thing was handled internally, with Pakistani outrage at what was done leading to action… nothing at all to do with outside pressure… though it was reported elsewhere of course.
“There´s not many things to happen in Nigeria, and this tacky show is being considered by them as a big promotional mean as a modern country. “
So you think isolation and condemnation will help the Nigerian people change their laws and culture…?
By: keltic - 24th October 2002 at 17:38
RE: Beauty contest shame
It worked in the case of the former girl who was saved because the West showed disappointment. It worked in Pakistan when that girl was rapped by a tribunal. There´s not many things to happen in Nigeria, and this tacky show is being considered by them as a big promotional mean as a modern country. I know it´s a symbolic gesture, but Nigerian authorities seem to be nervous.
By: Arabella-Cox - 24th October 2002 at 07:16
RE: Beauty contest shame
“Good idea GarryB, interesting point. But I am affraid preasure is only effective when there are real chances to change things. In the case of the US, I don´t know that things would change”
So what you are saying is that the Chinese government just needs to pop up and say they will put who they want in jail when they want and the rest of the world will back off from demanding they make changes over their human rights record?
Do you really think Nigeria will fold and suddenly change their policies because the world boycotted the Miss Universe contest?
Come on Kev…. 🙂
By: keltic - 23rd October 2002 at 21:42
RE: Beauty contest shame
>I am sure you will also
>take similar measures against the US and other countries who
>still have the Death Penalty as an option for punishment
>too?
>
Good idea GarryB, interesting point. But I am affraid preasure is only effective when there are real chances to change things. In the case of the US, I don´t know that things would change.
By: Arabella-Cox - 22nd October 2002 at 03:04
RE: Beauty contest shame
If it is not OK for Miss Universe to be held in Nigeria because of the punishments they impose on those convicted in their courts, then why not take other measures as well?
And of course while you are at it I am sure you will also take similar measures against the US and other countries who still have the Death Penalty as an option for punishment too?
Or is it a case of the super civilised and advanced (white) western countries using their power to show these dumb countries how to manage their own affairs?
By: keltic - 21st October 2002 at 17:56
RE: Beauty contest shame
Why did you assume we liked these contests?. I simply tried to bring to the forum the case of the girl who will be stone in Nigeria and the symbolic protest of some Misses and the selfish stance of others.
By: dcfly - 20th October 2002 at 19:36
RE: Beauty contest shame
Beauty contests??????? A bit pass’e aren’t they? And a lot of women would say sexist, I thought you guys would’ve had a bit more intelligence than that. I’m sorry but they do nothing for me,a complete waste of time and money.
sober at last
Dave
By: Geforce - 18th October 2002 at 17:50
RE: Beauty contest shame
Yeah Miss belgium is not going either.
By: keltic - 18th October 2002 at 16:58
RE: Beauty contest shame
Don´t confuse Miss World, with Miss Universe. Two different things. I am surprised, there´s not controversy in your countries about this. It´s in Nigeria.
By: Glenn - 18th October 2002 at 07:06
RE: Beauty contest shame
Nigeria? Are you sure? Ms.Panama has taken the crown now after the Russian girl was sacked, so Panama should be the next venue.
Regards, Glenn.
By: ROG117 - 17th October 2002 at 22:45
RE: Beauty contest shame
I thought it will be in Panama
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October 17, 2002 at 9:06 pm