World Summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg

RE: Again, please don’t spread misinformation

Hold on, aid is only a minor point really. Hardly worth arguing about!

There are bigger issues indeed. A lot of the problem in poor countries, especially African ones, revolve around poor governance. A program I would look at personally, is a “mentor” scheme whereby every rich country was teamed up with a poor country. They would help each other with cooperation, tarrif removal and others.

The rich country would second qualified people, who would take an active role in running the poor country. To a smaller extent, the secondments would be two-way.

There is not a huge amount of spending required for this, just good will and willingness to learn and to accept new methods.

Otherwise I fear, nothing will ever be done. The absolute farce of the Jhb summit is proof enough of that.

RE: Again, please don’t spread misinformation

Geforce, why don’t you get back to us on those figures you’re so sure about even though you’ve never even seen it or intimately know it before. The current administration just increased the amount of world aid and of all the countries pledging to supply NK, only the US finished supply all pledged amounts, even though the adm is having serious disagreements with the NK. How ironic, Japan didn’t give a penny to NK (it’s their money and i don’t blame them, would you aid certain countries who just shot a ballistic missile across your country without warning? tests or not)…EU…hahah, they just got criticized for not making payments to Afghanistan.

RE: Again, please don’t spread misinformation

I don’t go along with this “rich countries must help poor countries” rhetoric. The US is under no obligation to give aid whatsoever.

In reality, countries like the UK tie a lot of aid in to industrial projects – we’ll give you some aid if you spend it on a contract with a British firm…

Aid which is not given in this manner tends to either hit personal bank accounts or be squandered by incompetent and inefficient regimes.

Malaysia made a success of independence because it had the ambition, the people and even the leaders to do so. Zimbabwe had lots of advantges too, but a combination of a downright evil leader, yes-men in the government and a population who didn’t give a damn until a few years ago is the difference between these countries – not preferential treatment from former colonial masters or other Western nations.

RE: Again, please don’t spread misinformation

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-08-02 AT 01:04 PM (GMT)]All USAID and how it is spent is directed by Congress. It is difficult to get 535 petty tyrants to agree on anything, especially the “hidden agendas” the “hate America” crowd likes to speculate about. The Congressional hearings about USAID, how much and where it goes are open to the public and are well documented.

[link]http://www.usaid.gov/pubs/cbj2002/cbj2002_table02d.html[/link]

edit spelling

RE: Again, please don’t spread misinformation

USAID always comes with a hidden agenda -both political and business sense.Sometimes it is better not to give if we’re not sincere-talking about the ‘hidden hands’.

RE: Again, please don’t spread misinformation

The US donated the most money … maybe under the Clinton-administration. Bush, however, has got other ‘priorities’. I’m sure that Japan and the EU give more than the US, but I’ll try to look it up.

RE: Again, please don’t spread misinformation

talk is cheap, when it comes to money the US always donated the most. In that respect, having that many people from Belgium yet no real action really says a lot about superficialness.

RE: Again, please don’t spread misinformation

The Belgian gov’t ALONE has more representatives than the US gov’t. There are many American NGO’s at the conference, but if almost ALL heads of states attent the meeting, Bush should have been there.

Anyway, I don’t think Bush could survive such a meeting. Way too boring. He prefers “having a steak in his Texas-ranch”.

RE: Again, please don’t spread misinformation

It easy for most of us to claim this and that since most of us lived in a highly developed nations.It is not the leader who failed to develop their very own country but there’s a hidden hands somewhere -i know this because Malaysia gained independence from HM govt back in 1957-we were very poor back then .Economy depends solely on rubber and tin .But the people worked hard to fullfilled the meaning of independence,we faced a major obstacles from various sources.
To point out certain govt were corrucpted and failed to helped their own people just because they evict white men from certain areas -simply shows the west double standard practice.
How could we stopped the very poor from cutting trees in order to put food on their table???We are all very lucky cause we are soooo damn rich to understand the meaning of hunger .Beside who’s the ones selling all sort of weapons to countries like Zimbabwe which resulted most of the needed funds were redirected for defence purposes???
I’m proud to lived in a rich country yet i never forget those unlucky ones….hopes some of you guys could feel the same.

Again, please don’t spread misinformation

The US envoy is there and in fact US has one of the largest representation there, except no head of state. That’s arguable, because does it really matters that Bush is there or not? Hey you guys already thinks and some even “know” he’s an idiot, so why do you want him there? So, you can laugh at him being there? The point is to get the job done, and i’m not going to prejudge what’s going to happen but the US representative have been reporting confidence to present a “practical” set of milestones by the end of the meeting. Everybody can say give the money to the poor, especially the leaders of the poor. But when the money is there the majority of the time those same leaders used it up for personal gains and power. Sure sound like a moral blackmailing to me.

RE: World Summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg

I’m basically in agreement – poor countries are poor because their leaders are either incompetent or they wish to use poverty as a control mechanism over their population.

If you ask a Zimbabwean why his country is poor he will tell you “because Britain raped us”. Same applies to Zambia, Malawi, Nigeria…..There is a complete inability to face up to reality and develop themselves!

RE: World Summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 26-08-02 AT 01:36 PM (GMT)]Both the US and the EU have already said they will NOT give any more money to the ‘underdevelopped’ countries during this summit. The EU will probably just buy more ‘air’ from Russia. The polluter pays (and damn right he will).

RE: World Summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg

And serious tyrants in developed countries?

Regards,

kev35

RE: World Summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 26-08-02 AT 01:47 PM (GMT)]The politics of underdeveloped countries keep those countries underdeveloped. Humans are motivated by money and power. The leaders of underdeveloped nations are invariably monarchy, dictators, mullahs, holy men or tribal chieftains who keep the wealth and power to themselves. If they had to deal with other than poor ignorant masses (i.e. a middle class), they would be thrown out of power and they fear this (Robert Mugabe is a good example). “Sustainable Development”, or the sharing of resources, means nothing as long as there are petty tyrants in control of underdeveloped countries.

grammar

RE: World Summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg

Bad luck Tomel, undeveloped countries should have got their act together more quickly!

There is plenty of industry which is sustainable and plenty of economic activity which can be undertaken. Remember, “sustainable” is a net term. It only applies to the net result, not indiviudal countries. So one country can pollute, as long as another cleans up. This is the basis for the old proposal of carbon trading, which I am still an advocate of.

RE: World Summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg

Sustainable developepment simply translate into – the moves by certain western countries to halt certain developing countries from proggressing.How the hell ones could achieved a new level of development for its people if they cannot sell their timber for cash,build dams for electricity,clear forest for settlements?The west has done more damage during their industrial revolution era-and nobody has ever questions them.US have cut down trillions of trees during that period-could they gained sufficient development if those trees were untouched?x( 😛 🙁 }>

RE: World Summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg

“Sustainable Development” is a code word for communism.

Not sure if that was meant seriusly or not? Besides, in my opinion:

Sustainable Development is a driver of economic activity and will stimulate the economy. Just think of all that extra tree planting, all those smoke filters on chimneys, all those new fridges and TV’s with eco-friendly components, all that valuable material recalimed from old TVs and cellphones when they are properly recycled.

RE: World Summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg

“Sustainable Development” is a code word for communism. When will the commies realize that humans are lazy by nature and will NOT work for the good of the collective?