We have a small and ridiculous crisis over here. Our particular Saddan Husseim is King Mohamev V from our friendly Morocco. It seems that he doesn´t have much to do appart from getting married today, and needs providing the population relief to hide the serious internal conflicts. So….let´s invade Spain. No don´t worry, no invasion of Ceuta or Melilla (for the moment). This time 12 soldiers with the Morocco flag have invaded the neigbouring Isla de Peregil (just rock in the middle of the mediterranean). We also have our Galtieri. But no worry….Spain is quite soft and humble and don´t expect an army deployment. In any case, I do expect a war soon. They want appart Ceuta and Melilla, Cannary Islands. Even some idiots here are even asking the goverment to call Nato for that and willing to have Maggie Thatcher over here to do what she did, you all know when. I think it´s the heat of the summer which make governors act in a foolish way. Do you remember the pathetic shows of Greeks and Turkish sticking flags in pieces of rocks in the Aegean seas?:
By: Geforce - 19th July 2002 at 08:22
RE: Morocco invades Spain
He man, these aren’t just goats, they are Spanish goats and therefor should be protected by all means possible, that includes sending warships. I doubt these goats will be happier in Morocco, on the other hand, there aren’t so many thight European regulations there. maybe we should organise a referendum and let the goats decide. Isn’t that what democracy is all about?
By: Sauron - 18th July 2002 at 17:57
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Jorge
Its probabley just the weather. Isn’t this called the silly season?
Anyway your assessment puts it in prospective.
Regards
By: kkbelos - 18th July 2002 at 16:50
RE: Morocco invades Spain
It´s all about Ceuta and Melilla, this island is just a rock in the middle of the sea, but the meaning of moroccan troops there (when the island´s sovereignty was under discussion) without spanish reaction was that the next step would be Ceuta and Melilla, and that would mean a real war, as no goverment could leave those cities without breaking our constitution.
A lot of people in this forum are british, what would you feel if Argentina invaded one of many inhabited small islands around the Flaklands, just a rock but… I guess the UK armed forces would do something even before the time we waited for Morocco to leave.
Anyway, you have to understand that in Spain, Morocco is seen by many as the traditional enemy (I don´t konow if they are our enemy but for sure they are our main source of problems in these days)
Well, I still think a war is unthinkable, and with compulsory military service finished two years ago (I missed it just for one year) I wouldn´t like to serve in Africa.
Regards
Jorge
By: keltic - 18th July 2002 at 16:13
RE: Morocco invades Spain
The reason for the fuss, is that it was something with further implications. Lots of territorial extra claims, invasion of Sahara, and manouvers around Ceuta and Melilla (everyday) so that was the reason. But I agree, a wedding gift to Mohamed VI would be just great.
By: Arabella-Cox - 18th July 2002 at 11:13
RE: Morocco invades Spain
I just saw the island in question on the news and I almost choked on what I was eating.
A barren rock that looked like it was about 100m off shore from Morroco.
Who cares!!!
I would suggest as it is so far from Spain and no one lives there the Spanish should gift it to Morroco and in return the Morroccans should Guarantee not to interfere with the other two Spanish enclaves on African soil or some such thing.
I can understand shedding blood for your home (well almost…) but for a rock that noone but goats live on why bother?
By: keltic - 18th July 2002 at 09:34
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Nothing will happen guys. Aznar informed Bush couple of hours before and seemed to understand the attack. Power supported the Spanish willing to come back to the previous status quo and regrets the conflictive state between both countries. More tensions could happen, but nothing serious. The sea is in the middle. Only problems in Ceuta and Melilla and in the worse case located in Ceuta and Melilla and the sea.
By: Geforce - 18th July 2002 at 07:17
RE: Morocco invades Spain
The US will support Spain all the way. I think Aznar is one of the few European leaders Bush does like, and Spain will be using its best PR’s to let this war look, not only as a territorial war, but also a war against terrorism. Brussels has already backed Madrid’s position, still waiting what Washington will do. A war with European allies would be possible, and Europe would probably win this war, but it would be a lot easier with the US. Maybe this would be a good chance for thinking about a EUROCORPS.
But, this war is not enevitable, and if it can be avoided, than better do so. Spain is a very important country for the west (especially for Europe), because it holds the key for Latin America.
If there would be a war, how would it look like? First days of striking C-3 targets, important factories? Afterwarts a naval assault or Special Forces? Any ideas?
By: kkbelos - 17th July 2002 at 21:45
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Well, long time since I last wrote in this forum, I´m on holiday on my home town without a good internet connection so I don´t use the net very often. But with all this problem about a small island with morocco I´ve decided to share my point of view with you.
I don´t know if the island is spanish or not, this is of course a matter of international laws and diplomacy so it´s not possible to assure anything. But in the other hand, Morocco knew the island wasn´t recognised by Spain as part of Morocco´s land, so sending there 12 policeman doesn´t seem to be a clever decission. With troops in the island (yesterday, the police was replaced by royal marines), no “normal” negotiation can be made.
Today I´m worried, it´s difficult to imagine a war between Spain and Morocco (the strait of Gib is too important to cut it with a conventional war, and of course the US won´t allow that happen) but we´ve to remember the fact that the king of Morocco still has absolute power over his country and people, althought they have elections, the main ministers are chosen by the King and no important decission can be made without his permission so if he gets up tomorrow morning in a bad mood we may have a hot situation.
Because of this I´m not sure if the military action is a rigth way of solving all this mess, moroccan reaction is unforseeable.
Regards:
Jorge
By: keltic - 17th July 2002 at 20:40
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Thanks Geforce. Two parts in the press conference. One for internal consuption with the usual patriotic stuff, pride and so on; and a second one which talks about dialogue and diplomacy and their intention to go back to the previous status quo. The Spanish goverment have just said that they will leave the island should they get guarantees that the island won´t be invaded and promises treated questions of soveranity (except Ceuta and Melilla). Morocco would do something quite idiot is they want to make the situation more tense. On the other way, not much enthusiazm in Morocco for problems. Too many interests to spoil. In any case the US won´t allow two allies and one with vital bases, member of NATO and the EU get involved in something nasty. I wonder a call from the White House to both parts to these two pesky little countries, would do much more than anything.
By: Geforce - 17th July 2002 at 20:18
RE: Morocco invades Spain
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 17-07-02 AT 08:24 PM (GMT)]For the first time the news actually made the headlines here. Morocco said the military intervention was illegal and therefor an act of war. I hope this does not become a war, but it would be the first European territorial war in 50 years (within Europe ofcourse). Anyway, I’m with Spain.
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By: keltic - 17th July 2002 at 19:01
RE: Morocco invades Spain
We have been having tiny provocations since the Morocco invaded Sahara. I think Morocco cares a fig the rock, just want to distract conflicting sitution in the country, with a growing integrist power, with tensions in the parliament with the opposition and with population who is starting to question the system. It seems that wanted to create cohesion among the citizens. If we hadn´t responded in a militar way, we wouldn´t have given then attention and they would withdraw in a couple of days when they got fed up, tired and heated. But who knows. It seems that Moroccian population have more things to do. We also would love putting huge bomb and making it disappear. Hardly anyone knew what this island was.
By: EHVB - 17th July 2002 at 11:32
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Give them a finger, and they take the whole hand and more. If Spain had waited longer, maybe the Marrocans had builded something on the island, making a fast sullution/withdrawal more difficult. Now everything is back to the old situation.
By: keltic - 17th July 2002 at 11:18
RE: Morocco invades Spain
We have done something quite stupid. The result is fine, nobody was hurt, but we should have had more patient to end with a diplomatic solution
By: EHVB - 17th July 2002 at 07:52
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Well, Spanish troops reclaimed the island this morning.Let’s see what the Marrocan reaction will be (nothing I think).
By: Geforce - 17th July 2002 at 07:42
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Anyway, its dumb from Morroco to challenge the EU and NATO because at the end we all know who’ll be the winner and who’ll be the big loser. The Western Sahara is a tricky issue indeed.
By: keltic - 16th July 2002 at 16:34
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Yes Geforce, it´s probably a bit exagerated, but just in case to prevent further problems. The rock affair is unimportant but the case has further implications. There has been too many years of hidden problems against Spain. All started in the seveties when Morocco invaded Sahara, accepting that they would make a referendum..now they just want to assimilate it. They have claims over the Canary Islands, over Ceuta and Melilla and the same day they wanted to go ahead to Chafarinas Islands (in which a Spanish fortress is built), naval units prevented it. So it´s a bit symbolic, and simply to show a line, where they shouldn´t go over. Nobody believes that these guys want to fight against terrorism or ilegal emigration (specially when we all know the Royal Family and many VIPS are implicated in this lucrative business). NATO has said them to leave, and this has been really apreciated by Spanish people, who have really felt unprotected.
By: Arthur - 16th July 2002 at 15:14
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Geforce, i didn’t see any German sheepdogs in Ceuta. But apart from that you’re quite right – and who needs dogs if you have the Spanish Foreign Legion? It’s not without reason those guys aren’t based on continental Spain (:D) as they have a rather unfriendly reputation.
By: Geforce - 16th July 2002 at 07:31
RE: Morocco invades Spain
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-07-02 AT 07:32 AM (GMT)]Yeah, but its not like there’s any oil to find there, is it?
I find the reaction of Spain and the EU a bit exaggerated though, these men are no soldiers first of all, but policemen, and maybe Morroco just wanted to do something on the immigration towards the EU. Don’t forget the EU has already warned Morroco it will take sanctions if Morroco does not put a halt on the immigration. Apart from it, the EU did not want to make a deal with Morroco on fishery. Large European companies are catching all fish in the Med., making it difficult for local Morrocon fishermen to survive.
From the description Arthur gave us I can already imagine what Ceuta looks like. 10 ft fence, barking german sheppards, Spanish policemen wearing sun glasses and binoculars …
By: Rabie - 15th July 2002 at 17:56
RE: Morocco invades Spain
great discriptions arthur (what a well traveled guy you are)
looking at the paper on saturday this place in inhabited by 12 goats and is jest a rock – however its rght off the caost of moroco. also spain has several of these. any rock thats off morcan coast seams to be spanish.
IMHO the inhabited places at least are defintely spanish , if geogrpahy decided these thing the shetlands might be norwegian and teh channnel isalnd french
rabie :9
By: Arthur - 15th July 2002 at 13:20
RE: Morocco invades Spain
Oh, and i think the Dutch should voice their claim on Gib as well. The rock was captured by a combined Anglo-Dutch force, and the final peace treaty mentioned the Rock (excluded the area where the airport is now, that part of land was actually stolen) was to be a British-Dutch condominium. Of course, the Brits cancelled this deal when one of the next Dutch-English wars broke out (i think we had about seven of those :D).
Gib is nice though. Especially for the die-hard British: as early as 1999, prices in shops were already mentioned not only in pound sterling, but in Euros as well 😉
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July 12, 2002 at 10:03 am