By: Sonnenflieger - 30th March 2004 at 17:00
Originally posted by Jay330
just found this on the BBC news websiteSource: BBC News
Yep, that pretty much sums it up… operational SAS news from the last few days include the debut of a new route to Shanghai last weekend, and a series of semi-charters from Stockholm to Aleppo, Damascus, Beirut, Hurghada and Monastir to be operated during the summer. SAS left the Middle East some years ago when the route to Tel Aviv was closed; in the 80s and 90s services to Baghdad, Kuwait, Riyadh, Jeddah, Beirut, Damascus, Tehran and Cairo were suspended. Snowflake is already flying to Beirut, this new kind of ‘ethnic’ routes have proven to be a huge success for SAS in the last few months.
By: Jay330 - 30th March 2004 at 15:23
just found this on the BBC news website
Source: BBC News
By: greekdude1 - 25th March 2004 at 02:24
Originally posted by Sonnenflieger
I think it is safe to say that all divisions will still be part of Star Alliance – after all, the brand name will still be the same SAS.
That’s good to know. 😀
By: Jeanske_SN - 24th March 2004 at 19:49
Originally posted by Hand87_5
It’s obvious that the war has begun in the european sky.
I believe that the KL-AF deal was the start signal.
AZ is expected to join the gang , (if they avoid bankrupcy),
IB and BA have weeding plans.
IS AZ IN BANKRUPTCY PROCEDURES????!!!!!
By: Sonnenflieger - 24th March 2004 at 18:17
Thanks greekdude1 and Bmused55!
If I might update myself, there is some good news concerning SAS out today…
The negotiations between SAS and the pilots’ and cabin attendants’ unions were finally completed this morning. As a result of this, the old Viking might actually rise again…and keep its place as Europe’s fourth largest airline group.
Quoted from the SAS press release :
The Turnaround 2005 action program will give the SAS Group long-term competitiveness and profitability. Savings of about SEK 14 billion are required for the program to succeed. Decided and defined actions currently amount to SEK 12.5 billion and the remaining portion of about SEK 2 billion related mainly to renewed union contracts for all personnel groups.
These new agreements mean:
– savings of 14 billion SEK by 2005 will be achieved
– wage reduction for pilots and cabin personnel, but no layoffs and a deal involving some sort of job security for pilots
– split up of Scandinavian Airlines into three national airlines under one banner
– intercontinental flights will operate in a separate division
– merger of Scandinavian Airlines Norway and Braathens into SAS Braathens
The logo of the new SAS Braathens division in Norway is a bit unimaginative, though…
This story doesn’t say what will happen to Scandinavian Commuter and Snowflake. The Commuter division hasn’t been mentioned at all for a while, it is speculated that it will be dissolved and integrated into the respective national SAS divisions. As of now, its headquarters is at Copenhagen with 22 Bombardier Q400’s. They operate domestically in all three Scandinavian countries, though.
Snowflake, on the other hand, last week received two MD-80’s in full Snowflake livery and new routes were announced.
I think it is safe to say that all divisions will still be part of Star Alliance – after all, the brand name will still be the same SAS.
It is a quite happy Sonnenflieger writing these words, ’cause my airline has survived the worst crisis in its history and now we can start all over with new energy. I just saw the SAS Group CEO Jørgen Lindegaard on tv, and for the first time in years he actually smiled… :p
By: Bmused55 - 23rd March 2004 at 08:00
Welcome Hans, good to see another aviation industry employee on the forums. And going by this post, it looks like you will make a good contribution.
Interesting thread too, 5 stars 😀
By: greekdude1 - 23rd March 2004 at 03:11
This 3/2/2 rule is totally not economically feasible, so that’s a good thing to go. If they get split into 4, will they all be members of the Star Alliance still?
P.S. Fantastic thread Hans! Rookies, take note.
By: Sonnenflieger - 23rd March 2004 at 00:20
Since I am involved with the airline in question, I might be able to shed some light on this…
SAS is unique in the way that it is a multi-national airline, like Gulf Air and Air Afrique. With that comes not only advantages, but also a lot of disadvantages… like having to deal with 39 different unions in three countries whenever larger decisions have to be made, and some inefficiency caused by various rules and agreements running since 1 September 1946, when SAS was formed. For example, the 3/2/2-rule, meaning that on every SAS flight the crew shall be composed of 3/7th Swedes, 2/7th Danes and 2/7th Norwegians if possible… this is the ownership proportion of SAS, and this rule also applied to aircraft ownership and registrations until a few years ago when the economical benefits of having aircraft registered in Norway became so large that the 3/2/2 fleetrule was scrapped. Taxes are lower in Norway. Just now, the 3/2/2 cabin rule is being scrapped as well, with each country manning their flights with own crews.
The plan from the management of SAS Group is to split up Scandinavian Airlines (the main carrier in the SAS Group – other airlines include Blue1, Spanair, Braathens and Snowflake) into four parts to make the airline more efficient. Already, SAS has merged with Braathens in Norway.
Scandinavian Airlines will be split up into:
SAS Sweden – B737/MD-80 European routes out of Sweden + domestic
SAS Denmark – MD-80 European routes out of Denmark + domestic
SAS Braathens – B737 European routes out of Norway + domestic
as well as an Intercontinental division, operating the A330/A340 fleet with a main base at Copenhagen.
Each division will have their own AOC and be separate companies within the SAS Group. Each division will be able to make business decisions on their own, without having to care about the other two. This means also opening new routes. Until now there have been a lot of politics involved with new routes – often a cause of frustration within, as Copenhagen tends to get all new routes since it is the main hub, albeit not the most logical one, at least not for the Asian services which all pass over Sweden…
To the customer, nothing will change. All aircraft will look the same and there will still be just one SAS to the outside world.
For the historian, however, this is a return of the original SAS… In 1946, SAS was formed to operate intercontinental flights in a partnership between SILA/ABA (Swedish Intercontinental Air Lines/Swedish Air Lines), DNL (Norwegian Air Lines) and DDL (Danish Air Lines). Each of these airlines were 50% owned by the governments and 50% by private interests. In 1948, ABA, DDL and DNL started co-operating on European routes, and formed ESAS (European SAS). The original SAS then became OSAS (Overseas SAS). ESAS and OSAS were separate entities until 1951, when the current SAS was formed by the merger of ESAS and OSAS. The ownership is still the same, with ABA/SAS Sweden, DNL/SAS Norway and DDL/SAS Denmark each owning 3/7th, 2/7th and 2/7ths respectively of the SAS Group.
So, to summarize: Scandinavian Airlines might be split into four parts to make it more efficient and able to compete on a more equal level. This is subject to agreement with the 39 unions. 37 of them have agreed… the 38th and 39th are the pilots’ and cabin attendant unions who refuse to agree with more working hours, and lower wages. More importantly, there will be no more passive flying between ARN/OSL/CPH for crews on their way to work. This also puts a stop to hotel nightstops here and there. While a source of fun for the crews, also a source of very high hotel bills for SAS, which really aren’t needed.
Tomorrow 23 March, the Board of Directors in SAS will announce how it will be. If the unions won’t agree to this last way of survival for SAS, there will be massive layoffs (talks about 10-15,000 employees), and all intercontinental services will be suspended and transferred to Lufthansa, making SAS an intra-European airline only.
By: Mark L - 11th March 2004 at 14:12
As I understand it it is juist an efficiency thing. At the moment all decisions are taken through Stockholm, and the seperate countries are being given a bit more say on their own operations.
As I understand it Snowflake is closing down, and alll the Norway routes will go to the Norway division etc.
By: SHAMROCK321 - 10th March 2004 at 16:27
Its not that hard to understand.SAS have 3 main bases.Oslo,Copenhagen and Stockholm.The company will be broken up so that the finances will be delt with differently for each base.Also each base will probably have a set type of aircraft.EG all the MD80s in Oslo and the 737s in Stockholm or somthing like that.It makes sense to do this.All pilots that fly the 737s can lve there and it will cut down big time on operating costs.Or somthing along those lines.
By: Hand87_5 - 10th March 2004 at 12:08
It’s obvious that the war has begun in the european sky.
I believe that the KL-AF deal was the start signal.
AZ is expected to join the gang , (if they avoid bankrupcy),
IB and BA have weeding plans.
Aside of this some are gonna die for sure….. or be absorbed§
Let’s wait and see.
The deregulation after generating a big number of airlines, will produce 2 or 3 majors in Europe as in the US , some regional and LoCo’s.
By: tenthije - 10th March 2004 at 11:10
Could this be a “corporate poison pill”?
In business it is not uncommon for a company to make an, at first glance silly, change to make them less desirable for (hostile) take-overs. This split-up will definately make any take-over less favourable as the organizational mess will be terrible. Absorbing one company is possible, two would be a stretch but four is next to imposible. Maybe they are expecting LH to make a bid?
Apparantly there where also union problems, too many of them. This could be an attempt at killing of a good deal of them. And from the past there still is a quota on how many swedish/norwegian/danish employees each flight has to have. I reckon that is no longer going to be the case anymore (except for the long range ops).
By: Hand87_5 - 10th March 2004 at 07:42
It sounds like a weird idea!!
The trens now is to concentrate small airlines into big ones, and thos eguys will split SAS intio 4 parts!!!!
Well it will be 4 CEO’s with huge wages instead of one !!!
By: KabirT - 10th March 2004 at 02:14
Originally posted by dartie
Sorry i cant shine any light on it but i think its a ridiculous airline, what will happen to the shares in Spanair, personally i dont think the airline should split as it was just expanding more services and bringing more routes online, plus what will happen to Snowflake?!
I am guessing Snowflake will have its own organization…that way they will have the liberty to make there own decidions, but in compliance with SAS ofcourse.
By: dartie - 10th March 2004 at 01:16
Sorry i cant shine any light on it but i think its a ridiculous airline, what will happen to the shares in Spanair, personally i dont think the airline should split as it was just expanding more services and bringing more routes online, plus what will happen to Snowflake?!
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March 9, 2004 at 10:24 pm