7E7 Flight Deck

Ladies Ladies no “handbags at dawn” please!

Originally posted by Distiller
That sidestick is a stupid Airbus idea. You learn to fly with something central (hopefully a stick, since you are not a bus driver), you fly as copilot 7, 8, 10 years with the (Airbus) sidestick on the right hand, all your reflexes get trained for righthand action, then suddenly you get promoted to captain and – switch hand to the left! That is crazy! And with a sidestick you can’t switch hands in case you need/want. Sidestick = bad idea.

Exactly as Minidoh says, you have exactly the same change of hands when going from right to left seat on a Boeing. Even so, what’s the big deal? Have you never gone from driving a left hand drive car to driving right hand drive (or vice versa)? After 2 minutes you don’t even think about gear changing.

Coming back to the main point…if you’ve got a decent FBW system in place why do you want feedback? The aircraft will deal with all that by itself. The idea is to be free of all the waffle so you can get on with the task of flight guidance.

Distiller, I know what you are saying, but in any aircraft, the pilot will switch hands when he changes seats. In a Boeing, even though they often use the pilot not flying to push the throttles, whichever seat you are in depends on which hand you use for what.

That sidestick is a stupid Airbus idea. You learn to fly with something central (hopefully a stick, since you are not a bus driver), you fly as copilot 7, 8, 10 years with the (Airbus) sidestick on the right hand, all your reflexes get trained for righthand action, then suddenly you get promoted to captain and – switch hand to the left! That is crazy! And with a sidestick you can’t switch hands in case you need/want. Sidestick = bad idea.

Mike Bair, SVP 7E7 programme stated that the Boeing 7E7 cockpit will be identical to the Boeing 777 cockpit. The Boeing 7E7 will have back driven control yokes with same part number as the Boeing 777. Boeing plans to develop dual ratings for Boeing 777 and Boeing 7E7.

I agree Matthew, but your comment on the younger generation prefering the sidestick I disagree with. Although many young people prefer the sidestick, I for one prefer the yoke. Ok, that is just my view and not a representation of every young person learning to fly, however I think that around 50 to 60 % of young people would prefer the sidestick, and 40 to 50 % the yoke. That isnt such a big gap. But then I may be completely wrong!!! I may also change my mind if and when I make an airline pilot, but for the time being I like the yoke. As for FBW, I actually think that FBW is probably safer. But I dont like it!! Im sure the majority of passengers would actually prefer it if they knew that the autopilot was flying all the time (and many think it does everything), but I think its better without FBW. But yet again I have never used it, so I many be completely wrong!!!:D

Originally posted by Matthew Murray
That’s why ther eis two or more actuators per control surfaces, if the system detects an acuators that nots working, then it’ll isolate the actuator and alert the pilot in some, either via the ECAM orthe EICAS or via the Master Warning. I was commenting on the safety of the non-fbw as an aside…just thought people might like to know that…

grumble…….. ggrrfffft…..ghhhhggg

Originally posted by Matthew Murray
Hey,
In return tot hat, your mechanical linages are only so-far “mechanical”, whats the term I’m looking for? Hydromechanical? They are only directly linked to hydrualic actuators, so where’s your feedback from that coming from them? The mechanical system is a series of pullys, push-rod, dampeners, springs and counter-balances — with this setup, the right “feel” is always the same, there’s still no feedback from the actual Flight Control Sufaces, such as you would get in your Cessna. Also on this note, say what you want about mechanical systems, but if your hydrualics fail, then you are still up ****-creek without a paddle, just as you would be in a FBW Aircraft.

Don’t twist this, I’m not saying mechanical is safer than FBW! 😡

Even with hydraulics, there is a certain ammount of feedback. Take a jammed or sluggish actuator for example; You feel that through the cables and rods. But with FBW your relying on the system picking up such an event and feeding the correct “feel” into the controls stick/yoke or panel

I’m not talking about FBW, I’m talking about the good ol’ mechanical linkages between the yoke and the control surfaces. Where a small twinge in the aerolons would be felt but the pilot etc

for sure, FBW makes things a damn sight easier, and cheaper. But the sacrifice is the “real feel”. Another casualty in the ever advancing technological world

With Matthew on this one.

Originally posted by Matthew Murray
Hey,

I care to disagree, on a FBW System whether it be a Yoke or Sidestick, feedback is given artificially via springs and dampeners int he control mechanism of the respective input device (if you like). Be it a triple seven with a yoke, or an A320 with a Stick, it’s done the same. There is no “real” sense of feedback.

The only “real” feedback a pilot can ever get is in, say a Cessna 152 where there is a direct mechanically like between the yoke and the flight control surface.

I might also add that the Rudders have artifical feel systems, so the pilots still get the same feel, even though the rudder is biased out at certain airspeeds, not true feedback, is it?

What it comes down to is, What does the pilot prefer? What’s it going to cost Boeing? I believe that younger pilots will prefer the sidestick, after all they are the Playstation Generation. Whereas, older, more experienced pilots may prefer the Yoke because that’s what they have always used.

thats just it, artificial. What governs and controls these artificial feedbacks. Whats to stop th “controller” giving incorrect feedback?

Indeed Bmused55, very sad news 🙁

Some pilots prefer the Yoke as it kinda connects them to the aircraft. They can feel the movement of the controls. It can even help feel for problems, jammed controls etc. Much like the steering of a car, I like to me able to “feel” the road. The feedback I get from the steering help me judge the condition of the road surface and the stbility of my car.

With complete FBW side sticks, u just don’t get that kindas feedback.
And as car steering turn more and more into indirect power steering (FBW technology) you’re loosing the “feel”

Dont forget about meal time too. If you have the sidestick then you get your own tray to eat off,even if it is crew food.:D

Don’t know about you lot but…my arms are located at the side of my body…so that’s where I’d like them to put the stick! 😉

Originally posted by wysiwyg
I would be very surprised if it wasn’t just about identical to the 777.

That would make sense thinking about it. Type ratings and all.

Apparently the plan was for the 747 advanced to have a 777 type cockpit

I would be very surprised if it wasn’t just about identical to the 777.

the 777 has FBW and everyone is happy with it so i expect the 7E7 to have the same FBW system or a system derived from the 777s system. That would make the development costs quite a bit cheaper. As for yoke vs sidestick, Boeing will always stick with the yoke.

Now theres a good question.

No way to tell right now. A side stick would be the logical step.