Virgin in talks on £1bn jet order
Dominic O’Connell
VIRGIN ATLANTIC is in advanced talks with Boeing and Airbus over a £1 billion order that could be finalised before the end of the year.
Virgin, which last week reported a pre-tax profit of £15.7m — compared with a pre-tax loss of £92.6m a year earlier — is understood to be negotiating to replace its older Airbus A340 aircraft.
A company spokesman yesterday refused to be drawn on the size of the order, but industry sources said it was understood that talks in Seattle and Toulouse, the headquarters of Boeing and Airbus, centred on a deal for up to 10 new aircraft.
If a deal were struck this year, it would be the largest order placed by a British airline in 2003.
The biggest so far was a £500m contract for Bombardier aircraft placed by FlyBe, the regional airline. British Airways, by some distance Britain’s largest airline, has ordered a capital-investment freeze, and is not expected to buy new aircraft for the foreseeable future.
Virgin’s most recent aircraft purchases have all been with Airbus — six A380 super jumbos and a fleet of A340-600s.
But a source at the airline said it had not shut the door on Boeing, which is eager to find a British customer for the recently launched larger versions of its fast-selling 777 twinjet. “Whichever manufacturer gets the order, they will have to have sharpened their pencils,” the source said.
Virgin’s accounts, published last week, reveal for the first time that the company bought slots at Heathrow airport. It paid out £13m, almost all of which went on the purchase of two pairs of prime-time slots from SN Brussels, the Belgian airline.
Plans by Sir Richard Branson, Virgin’s chairman, for direct flights to Australia face a crucial test next month with the start of aviation talks between Britain and Hong Kong. Virgin needs to be granted traffic rights between Hong Kong and Australia before it can fly the route.
Cathay Pacific and Qantas, both members of the BA-led Oneworld group of carriers, are expected to oppose Virgin’s plans. Branson has long coveted the so-called “kangaroo” routes linking Europe with Australia over Asia, but has avoided head-to-head confrontation with the powerful BA-Qantas alliance.
By: KabirT - 17th August 2003 at 06:08
well they do operate B747s so even if they go on to 777s to replace old A340s…i wont be surprised.
By: steve rowell - 16th August 2003 at 23:43
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MapleLeaf_330
Why not go for fleet commonality. They have the 340-600 and the A380 (on order), i’m sure the 747’s will start to be replaced within a decade, why not go all one type? [/QUOTE
I totally agree with you, why not stick to all Airbus
By: Ren Frew - 13th August 2003 at 15:45
Originally posted by dartie
Well if their getting B777’s then the saying would go:
2 engines 2 get there!
Or …” Here’s two in the air from Virgin”
By: Florida Dude - 13th August 2003 at 14:33
Looks like VS would go for Airbus, on my flight last thursday (VS027) it was full to the brim, luckily most of the passengers are kids so they don’t weigh as much. I would like tosee more A340’s please and if possible push some over LGW’s way.
By: Pembo330 - 13th August 2003 at 08:52
I think this PR Release is a stunt to get the best price. In my mind, Virgin already know what they want – more A340s. By announcing what they have, it gives Airbus the notion that they may lose the deal and will have to reduce the price to ensure they get it.
On the other hand, nothing would surprise me about Richard Branson – the guy is a law unto himself and a refreshing presence in the world of commercial aviation.
By: dartie - 13th August 2003 at 08:12
Well if their getting B777’s then the saying would go:
2 engines 2 get there!
By: ACA345 - 12th August 2003 at 22:03
Dont forget the A340-600HGW:)
By: MapleLeaf_330 - 12th August 2003 at 20:25
Also, didn’t Virgin and Airbus cut a sweet deal so that Virgin could still be the launch customer of the 346 post 9/11?
By: robc - 12th August 2003 at 19:48
It would be nice to see another order for more 346’s !!!
By: Selsport69 - 12th August 2003 at 19:27
Whats the bet its more A340. It would be in their interest especially for pilot traing to stick with one company.
By: dan330 - 12th August 2003 at 19:14
Be silly to go for anything other than the A345/6 in my opinion, a small airline like that needS fleet commonality.
I do feel the PR of “4 engine 4 longhaul” is a stupid idea though. Surely one day VS will need something a bit smaller. OK they can fill 744’s and A346’s on their current routes as the demand is high, but as they grow they will have to start flying tO places where the demand isn’t quite as good and where something like an A330 or 777 would be better suited.
Even BA operate mainly 777’s across the Atlantic and they have a lot of connecting traffic at LHR, more than VS surely.
By: Cyprioteagle - 12th August 2003 at 19:01
My friends,
Maple_leaf330, It would be more ideal for Virgin if they maintain their two aircraft type fleet for bargaining purposes. Having bridges with both Airbus and Boeing allows them for having better bargaining power when they will place orders in the future.
Boeing B777 could be ideal for Virgin Atlantic, and if I remember correctly, once they did place an order for B777-200’s but they later either cancelled it or converted it for B747-400’s. Anybody who has a better memory about this may enlight us more.
Having a B777 however may break their ‘4 engines 4 long haul’ slogan. Not only, that it may also damage the expectations of their passengers. I remember sometime back, I was reading an article about Virgin and a spokeman said that the slogan was conceived after making a research that determined passengers prefer to fly with a four engine aircraft on long-haul as they feel more safe. Has that passenger conception changed with the further introduction of ETOPS? This remains to be seen.
Finally, everybody argues that the favourite aircraft from Boeing’s behalf is B777, but why did we all exclude the B747-400ER? Currently, only Qantas operates her.
By: MapleLeaf_330 - 12th August 2003 at 17:46
Why not go for fleet commonality. They have the 340-600 and the A380 (on order), i’m sure the 747’s will start to be replaced within a decade, why not go all one type?
By: Saab 2000 - 12th August 2003 at 17:31
Well they would have shot themselves in the foot if that was the case with their PR stunts but a Boeing order would highly surprise. Seems like the Iberia situation in the making…
By: A330Crazy - 12th August 2003 at 17:11
What about the “4 engines 4 long haul” idea??? Though a fleet of B777 in a VIR c/s would be nice to. Concordes would be better. 😀
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August 12, 2003 at 5:00 pm