October 8, 2024 at 9:09 am
Sadly its reported that an accident occurred involving a Fokker D8 replica on Saturday the 5th of October during a display at Old Rhinebeck, the pilot unfortunately died in the crash.
Only recently I saw film of this aircraft operating out of there and thought how unsuitable the location was, trees surrounding the strip with no where to put down if something went wrong.
asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/449851
By: Prop Strike - 10th October 2024 at 10:54
I think there are two issues, one being engine reliability and the second is suitable terrain. and the two do overlap.
The Shuttleworth Collection is far and away the largest and most long term operator of old, and especially rotary engines in the UK, in the Camel, Pup, Avro 504, Bleriot, Sopwith Triplane, and other lodgers, like the Bristol Scout.
Overall, they are fairly reliable performers, and one often sees maybe three flying together, so it is not a rarity, or a fluke. Over the years, they have occasionally faltered or failed in flight, and been dropped into the wide open Bedfordshire fields, usually with minimal damage. It helps that the Trust owns the estate, and can keep the landscape undeveloped.
Cole Palen was to a degree inspired by Old Warden, when he established Old Rhinebeck in the 1960s, though he took the operation down a more air display/ flying circus route, with great success, and there was a troubled period after his death with infighting and struggles. Engineering standards have been in the spotlight, such as the Avro 504 crash ( in the trees) which had a missing keeper and cotter pin, and NTSB was critical in their investigation. It is a fact that the operation has lost a fair number of aeroplanes, two in the last two months ,and usually ending up very broken in the trees. Shuttleworth too of course has had many incidents in six decades, but usually damage has been slight, and sometimes no damage at all.
Rotary engines are not dangerous per se, but they are ‘tricky’ and not altogether reliable. They DO need proper and constant upkeep, and it is surely self evident that to take them into the air, requires a ‘Plan B’ in the event of a forced landing, which ideally does not involve a densely wooded landscape. The only solution I can think of is just hop them within the airfield boundary, or clear a number of glades, to accommodate a forced landing. Whether land ownership or funding could make that a possibility, I do not know.
By: bazv - 10th October 2024 at 08:46
If one wants to be really pedantic – the Rhinebeck Fokker was marked as an E.V 😉
In late 1918 the German military obviously had nothing more important to do than redesignate some of their Fighters !
And it was a Fokker D.VIII (replica), not a “D8”, which I think is a bulldozer.
By: J Boyle - 9th October 2024 at 18:57
Yes, the field is surrounded by trees.
But have you looked out the windows on any takeoff lately?I t’s a fact of life that if an engine(s) quits at the wrong time, you’re not going to have an empty field or airport where you’re coming down.
The apparent (or reported) issue here is the reliability of the vintage powerplants, not the suitability of the field.
A friend made a beautiful Slowing Pup to celebrate its 2016 centenary. Even with a professionally rebuilt engine, it still had a engine failure during its limited use before ending up in a museum.
Thankfully, U.S. regulations make a blanket mass banning unlikely, but I’m a bit surprised that the UK CAA hasn’t banned the ancient engines.
By: Sabrejet - 8th October 2024 at 15:50
Old Rhinebeck has been operating for many decades; critique of its location would seem somewhat strange.
And it was a Fokker D.VIII (replica), not a “D8”, which I think is a bulldozer.
By: Prop Strike - 8th October 2024 at 13:19
There is a bit of a news embargo from Old Rhinebeck, and the event details are unclear, though ASN reports it as
”An experimental Fokker D.VIII replica, amateur built by Brian T. Coughlin, crashed into a wooded area and burst into flames at the south end of the runway at Old Rhinebeck Airport (NY94), Red Hook, New York.
The sole pilot perished and the aircraft was destroyed.” There are suggestions the engine was on fire in flight, but there does not seem to be evidence of that at present in the public domain.
Certainly the heavily wooded terrain is unforgiving of forced landing, as seen a few weeks ago with the Jungmann.
By: Dave Homewood - 8th October 2024 at 10:36
It is very sad indeed. I read a news report that said it is thought his engine caught fire before the crash. No mention of trees.
By: Prop Strike - 8th October 2024 at 09:57
I have to agree. I have lost count of the number of aeroplanes which have ended up in the trees, it seems a challenging choice of terrain when operating 100 year old aircraft ( or replicas) with rather idiosyncratic engines.
Only a month ago a Jungmann went down in the trees after a collision, there was a Bristol Scout many years ago ( now in Yeovilton) and the Avro 504, see video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMwNRSWhsWk
The loss of the Brian Coughlin, of Cazenovia eclipses concerns over aircraft, and he has been a key figure in the success of the flying museum, having been a longtime Aerodrome volunteer and board member, according to a Facebook post by the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome . He has been involved with the organization “most of his adult life, in many capacities,” according to its website, including flying in the aerodrome’s air shows, supervising its infrastructure plan, restoring and building aircraft including several Fokker Triplane replicas and the Fokker D.VIII replica.