8 Scrapped Hurricanes found in Ukraine

Id rather see these aircraft in the air representing their histories than not, no matter if only one bolt from the original was used in the build.

If I had the finances I would definitely have one built.

For the UK case this may help?

https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviation/aircraft-ownership-and-maintenan….

@avion ancien – I recall there was a legal kerfuffle in US a couple of years ago with two P-51s “emerging” from the same wreck, thus being given the same serial number and having their respective owners arguing which one deserves to keep the number and “identity”.

You guys are more knowledgeable on this subject – does any of you know what came out of this mess in the end?

Hi All,

 I think this has been mentioned before in similar restoration threads but the thought experiment Ship Of Thesis:- ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus ) comes to mind.  After all how many aircraft no matter what Age / Era have had various bits and bobs replaced over time ?

Nothing can be 100% original if you actively use it, it’s just a fact of mechanics if like eventually something will Wear out / Break and then need replacing no matter how insignificant the part,  on the other hand if there is an attempt to deceive mixed in then that is a no no and quite rightly be called out as fake.

Geoff.

If I have a box of hundred components, recovered from the crash site of Spitfire Z9999, and I use each individual component as the basis of an individual aircraft restoration, are there then one hundred genuine Spitfires Z9999? If not, which single aircraft is entitled to claim to be Z9999 and what is the status of the other ninety nine? And if someone advances the data plate argument, why does possession and incorporation of a data plate, in a restoration, give any more entitlement to claim that this restoration is Z9999 than, say, a restoration which uses a pair of wings that were fitted to Z9999 when it was built?

By: Aerotony – 4th July 2023 at 12:53 

I, for one, don’t have a problem with, and indeed applaud, “new build” warbirds. What does not rest easy with me however is such builds assuming the identity of an aircraft that was excavated from a deep hole in the ground and then also claiming that aircrafts history.

Really? so how would you do it then, new identity?

There would be very few Spitfires around, even fewer Hurricanes.

So MH434, where do you sit with that Spitfire?

At the risk of the thread becoming another ‘what constitues a new-build/replica?’…

I operate a former RAF aircraft that – in its active service life – has seen both its wings, the front and aft fuselage, stabilizer, struts and most control surfaces replaced. Yet it is widely considered an original aircraft – repaired to original drawings using original techniques and materials. One could argue this is a rebuild or replica. It is not.

I understand your reservations,  but there are valid reasons for the process, mainly that having the identity of an aircraft, and some components ( slim but robust provenance) faciltates the process to count as a rebuild in the eyes of the CAA, as opposed to a new build. The different regulatory regime and added costs of the latter classification might well preclude such projects ever getting underway.

Spitfire AB910 of the RAF  memorial flight is a stalwart of the display scene and has been for 50 years. whereas Spitfire EN570 soon to emerge from Biggin Hill is the DNA of an excavated wreck, and a few components are included in the new-build airframe.

The essential point is that there is no deception,  one is the Spitfire it always was, and one is mainly new components, but connected to, and perpetuating the identitiy and the story of an airframe once considered lost. 

If everyone knows, and everyone understands the process, I personally don’t see a downside.

I, for one, don’t have a problem with, and indeed applaud, “new build” warbirds. What does not rest easy with me however is such builds assuming the identity of an aircraft that was excavated from a deep hole in the ground and then also claiming that aircrafts history.

we need more Hurricanes

It suprises me that there is expressed here something close to weary disappointment that we might have to put up with some Hurricane reconstruction/recreations based on the identities and some parts of these relics.

It must be obvious that 80 years on, this is how new flying warbird projects have to be,  since there are (probably) no more essentially intact airframes to be discovered. We should consider ourselves lucky that we have in the UK the skills and financial backers to keep putting these projects back in the air, because there are very few countries where this happens.

I look forward to seeing a flying Mosquito at some stage soon, fully aware it has  an all-new wooden airframe, a fact that will not remotely taint my enjoyment of the spectacle. Because it is a Mosquito. And it is flying !

Definitely restorable, but as said above, its the mail spare stock getting very short nowpossibly enough for another two.

P3966 coming along well from what I am reliably told.

Not enough main spar stock for 8 new fliers surely?

From the broadcast , they appear to be past restorable, so I guess we may eventually see 8 “ dataplate replica” Hurricanes 

Better than nothing . 

What that never happens no use of stock footage ever……..:- )

Geoff.

Thanks Geoff – nice to see they didn’t call it a fighter jet and use footage of Spitfires and Mustangs!

Hi All,

 Fargo Boyle – Hope you don’t mind matey but I found this small video to accompany your article, courtesy of BBC on Youtube:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D38SXIO6ejA

Geoff.

The BBC say that an ordnance disposal team were checking the area for UXB when they found the Hurris, it wasn’t hobby detectorists on a search. 

Ukraine finds British WW2 Hurricane planes outside Kyiv – BBC News

Ukraine is a large country (one of the largest in Europe if you discount Russia) and the fighting is taking place in a limited area in the far east. Of course there are rocket strikes outside of that area.

Not all the population is actively engaged in the fighting and the people that aren’t, need to try to have as normal a life as is possible including continuing with their economic activity and their “hobby” interests.  

It’s surprising to me that anyone in the Ukraine has time to look for buried treasure.

On various model building sites they talk of new releases of plastic kits by The many Ukrainian plastic model companies.

The West is pouring billions in aid to the country and even more to the point ratcheting up international tensions…yet with stories like this it seems some there are conducting business as usual?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m on their side but what’s up?