Vickers Viking G-AGRW

Well, rather than recover their Chipmunks with fabric, some Americans removed the fabric and pop riveted 22 or 24 swg aluminium onto the wings instead. 
 

Hi Oracal,

No need for apologies, there’s various discrepancies that confuse us.  One of the puzzling things is there’s no mention anywhere about outer wing panels with alloy skin over geodetics. Everything we’ve seen so far suggests geodetic with fabric, or a stressed skin with pressed ribs. Attached photo of the outer wing section shows again, not the case on G-AGRW… Strange!

Yes, the fuselage build is going to be hard, but I’m told there’s nearly a full set of the fuselage ‘D’ frames held, and those when used with new tubular longerons get a long way in to starting something that can be put in a jig..

Rich Woods. My apologies, the CAA describe the aircraft as a series 1. I now see that the registration document has an a handwritten change to a series 1A. Tinning the wings is not covered by BAe in their own history of the type. Still,  you are not going to have an easy job making a geodetic fuselage. Good luck anyway. 

Now that’s the way to answer a criticism

great project best of luck with it guys

Jeepman –

Its a great idea and was Barry’s original preference, but those that have the parts are reluctant to part with them so it was a non-starter. The Viking being available gave an avenue to achieving a similar result.

Oracal –

G-AGRW is serial number 115, so the 15th built, orginially fitted with fabric skinned wings as was the Wellington. At some point it received metal skins, though it still retains the geodetics unlike the 1B in your cutaway. This, coupled with the wing being the same size and section makes it viable to use in the same way a Hastings wing can be used to create a Halifax. The fuselage will largely be new build, using Z1206 as a pattern and incorporating as much original structure as can be found.

I’ve attached a photo of G-AGRW’s wings structure to help illustrate the above.

Vickers Viking G-AGRW Is a series 1 aircraft. It has stressed-metal wings and tail unit, and a metal fuselage. The Wellington did not have these structural features. I would be interested in hearing what the plan is to make replica Wellington from this Viking aircraft. 
 

If you pulled together all the Wellington parts scattered around the country, fuselage at Brooklands, wings at East Kirkby, tail at Moreton in the Marsh etc etc as a start, should be possible to build up another….. 

Markb –

Different how? Like building new two seat fighters, and putting those in ‘authentic’ markngs? Stop being obtuse.

No-one cares for your views, they change absolutely nothing..  this is how its going to be done, and the Viking is the beginning of it. If anyone had wanted to restore it, it wouldn’t have been under threat of scrapping to start with. As for provenance, it has a few brief years with Autair and a loooong time as a McDonalds. Hardly inspiring.

If you don’t like it – then move on; or use the ‘stash of original parts’ (that isn’t available anyway…) and build a Wellington youself.  As I said earlier, no-one is stopping you.
 

Nobody is stopping you to take action……..

There’s a big difference in painting something up in a different identity and destroying an original aeroplane with genuine historic provenance to make a fake one. Paint is paint; it can be removed and replaced. But once you’ve destroyed the Viking it’s gone. Why can’t it be enough to restore the Viking? If you want a Wellington, build one and use the stash or original parts that exist to give it some genuine provenance.  G-AGRW deserves better.

How about “No.”?

You’re entitled to an opinion, but G-AGRW has now got a new fate awaiting. If you felt/feel that strongly about its survival, where were you when it was about to get scrapped?

Similarly, if you want to start talking ‘fake nonsense’ and original liveries shall we start with warbirds wearing paint schemes that aren’t from their their own history, or are we going straight for the main course of Spitfires that originate from the Isle of Wight as opposed to Castle Bromwich and that particular merry go round again?

The only part of this project that is nonsense would be allowing it to get scrapped purely because you can’t have what you want happen to it.

If you want a new build Wellington, crack on. Nobody’s stopping you.

It’s a wretched idea. How about saving it as a Viking and restoring it in its original Autair livery? This sort of fake nonsense is utterly dismal. Destroy a real aircraft with proper history and provenance and make a bogus fake. I’d rather see a new-build Wellington TBH. 

Moth Minor……     

Thank you for the clip…………!!!    Two and a half days for the trip included two night stops, Malta & Khartoum…..

Fair enough, Rich. Very sad but it sounds like it was pretty terminal for the poor old girl anyway  All credit to Mr Love he’s certainly stuck with his “mad thoughts”!

Its precisely the same as the Halifax, as the Viking had been towed to the fire dump and was about to get reduced to cockpit and engines in a short space of time!  I don’t like seeing aircraft scrapped, but if nobody was going to save it as a Viking, surviving on in some form as a Wellington seems to me a very decent compromise, and better than being shredded for recycling.

I’m told its internally very stripped apart from some garish interior decor left over from its past duties as a McDonalds restaurant; but Barry is looking to repatriate the whole aircraft not just the parts he requires, so I’m guessing he’s got plans for the rest.

MothMinor, yes that old thread is/was him!

I do think the Viking is worthy of saving in its own right and it’s a pity to lose an example of an early post-war airliner in order to construct a replica. I wouldn’t say the same about the Halifax as the Hastings was a fire-dump example, wasn’t it? Anyway, it sounds a done deal so, like FLY.BUY, I can only hope that the cockpit section will be saved.

A chap by the name of Barry Love has long been trying to get parts together to rebuild/recreate a Wellington

Since 2014 (assuming the same Barry L) – https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/132371-can-a-wellington-ev…

Rich, thanks for the ‘back-story’, and it is encouraging to hear the project is based on a sound and long-term plan.  It will be a major challenge to fabricate   geodetic/geodesic ( you see both terms) structure. The fact the scrapping has been halted is very welcome news.

On the point of the Halifax, my impression is that it is generally held in very high regard. It is certainly an impressive exhibit and a credit to the team who worked on it.   They tried to obtain the Halifax fuselage section held by the IWM but they declined to release it, sadly, and so a new nose had to be fabricated.  It was an innovative effort,  and made available to the public a complete Halifax, which is something the RAF museum have taken 45 years not to do. 

Interesting idea, I wish them well with the project. I presume the Viking cockpit section will Hopefully be saved? 

Its a real project, though it needs a wider audience to get things going proper. I appreciate some may think that the Viking is worthy of saving in its own right, but nobody seems wlling to step up to save it in one lump, and similar barbs are always hurled at Elvington’s Halifax for daring to be a composite.. its a bit repetitive and not really constructive.

Information…  A chap by the name of Barry Love has long been trying to get parts together to rebuild/recreate a Wellington, and he is heading things up. I found out the Viking was under threat of scrapping and put him in touch with its current owners. A deal has since been struck (and the scrapping stopped), so Barry is now fundraising to bring it home from Austria once Covid has calmed down a little. So far he has been approaching original equipment manufacturers and other sources – but for more detail you would need to ask Barry himself.

Some Wellington main fuselage frames have already been acquired and Wellington Z1206 is being used as a template for bomb bay/fuselage structure. These will be used with the Viking’s own Wellington derived wings, to form the basis of the ‘new’ aircraft, in the same way Hastings wings have been used to build Halifaxes.

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/wellington-construction-project

Regards

Rich

What’s missing from this thread so far is any tangible information concerning the alleged plan to bring G-AGRW back to the UK. Who is planning to do this? How is it to be achieved? Is the Austrian museum aware of this? How is it to be ‘Wellingtonised’? From where is the funding coming? Or is this just ‘fantasy’ news?