Quick question: How many Spitfires regularly fly?

Plus  VFR  have another two or three in the pipeline.

https://www.vfr.net.au/spitfire-ix-mh415

I see mentioned on Facebook that MH415 is ready for flight after rebuild, so that will be another airworthy.

Do you know what identity they purchased in the UK?

In the case of the Spitfire at VWC, As I said it by the time it reached Comox there was not much left but a corroded firewall which they didn’t use
In fact there was so little provenance in the Project that VWC purchased a Spitfire identity in the UK and attached it to this build

Thank you Bruce nice to hear both sides . Guess the nameless doyen would be Mark12, pity he doesn’t post here anymore always liked his input

Hello again,

I worked on Spitfires at Historic Flying for 10 years from 1990. I know the gentleman to whom you refer reasonably well. He is no longer a member of this forum sadly, and I don’t claim to have his expertise, but I do know what most projects started with. Its also quite easy to refer to the Spitfire Survivors books as reference.

I have absolutely included those projects where the provenance is quite sketchy, and also those where the provenance is good, but the parts count low, in the figure of 18. My approximate figures relate to currently airworthy Spitfires, as listed in that WiX survey. 

I think however if you looked at overall survivors, as defined in the books, and elsewhere, one could easily state that fewer than 50 percent began as whole aircraft, or tangible wrecks. Indeed, there are a number of machines currently registered that don’t even feature in the books!

I will take issue with your characterisation of TE294 – it was an established survivor in the 1990’s, and at the time it was owned by Mark deVries, there was a significant part of it still extant. I offered an opinion on it when it was still owned by deVries, based entirely on photographs (!) which as I recall was along the lines of there not being sufficient original aircraft to warrant the asking price – regardless of the starting point, even then most of the original had been discarded. It then moved to Comox, as a project, and still with the serial TE294. I have no doubt that little was used of the original, but the initial provenance was reasonably good – and there was no need to purchase an identity to add to it. Remember that the fuselage build was entirely done at Comox, before it moved to VWC. I am also well aware of the issues with the wings that were built in the UK!

An expert on the subject I am not – but using readily available information, I think the figures I gave are reasonably accurate. 

All the best, and stay safe.

Bruce

Bruce

Respectfully , I do not know your qualifications as to giving an accurate count of Spitfire information.

I myself am no Spitfire expert but the  quote comes from someone that is world renown in all things Spitfire. He is a member of this page and of WIX. I wont name him here but I hope he will jump into this discussion at some point .

The quote is about 2 yrs old now but the number of new builds vs actual spitfires wont have changed that much .

I do not think you can include in your numbers Spitfires that are nothing more than shredded wreckage pulled from the ground or sea. For the most part these wrecks are recovered looked at and a completely new replica aircraft is built.  At the most (I’m being generous here) 5-8% of the wreck will ever be used.

A perfect example of this is the early Spitfire pulled from the sand in France . Basically nothing was reuseable except maybe the data plate . The build a “new Spifire” or replica if you like

In the case of TE294, there may have been substantial parts at one time but by the time Comox got it there was only a corroded firewall to start with. This was again verified by the World Spitfire expert mention above. Further VWC purchased a Spitfire identity to attach to the aircraft in an attempt to legitimize its lineage.  To recap the VWC Spitfire is a replica of a Spitfire , its been painted as TE294 and has an altogether different identity attached to it that was obtained in England . Like stated on the VWC website , it is the 1st Spitfire “built in Canada”…built  not restored

Look forward to hearing more Bruce.

I would still question that figure. When I was working on them in the 1990’s, that was far from being the case. It is more the case now, as there is so much less available in terms of starting point.

Edit! Having used the WiX page as a basis for currently airworthy aircraft, I would estimate that of 64 currently airworthy, 46 are either substantially original, or restored original airframes (to a greater or lesser degree). 18 I would say are based on partial remians, or on crashes. They all have different levels of provenance however. 

However, if we look at aircraft coming through restoration at present, with some notable exceptions, many are based on wreckage to a greater or lesser extent. Of those listed, there will be some that are never completed however. I’ll spend a couple of hours in the books later and see what we can nail down.

Bruce 

Bruce when I made the statement 

“Its been estimated that of the 50-55 “Spitfires” flying only about 25 are actual real ones with history . The rest are dataplate copies. “

I was loosely quoting a certain world renown Spitfire expert from  England 

the majority of what people call Spitfires started out with twist mangled remains dug you from a crash or eroded junk that was in the sea or under sand 

We have all seen the pictures. virtually 98% of the  wrecks were unusable

the Mk1 Spits are perfect examples of being brand new replicas or copies of you like 

Not saying they are not beautiful recreations

They are certainly better than none at all  

Think COMOX got it to a fairly advanced stage.One of the first Spit projects that had fairly regular updates on the Internet..

Its quite wrong to say that ‘Most’ flying Spitfires are data plate specials. Its quite true that some are – but the vast majority have their roots in substantial starting points. Only one or two are completely new build.

In the 1990’s, TE294 was a bottom of the barrel sort of project. I assessed it for purchase for a client at the time, and felt there was not enough original material to consider it worthwhile – but things change, especially as substantially complete projects dwindle. I would guess that little of what came with the project was in any way usable sadly.

Bruce

Not sure if that is the same aircraft even though TE294 is written on it . 

According to the original restoration team at Comox , all they had was a very corroded firewall that was “suspected “ to have come off of TE294 but never verified .

I am assuming this picture was taken a long time ago when there was much more of the airframe in existence. 

The corroded firewall was off course never used but became the basis for the rebuild. It’s an interesting picture and I’ve never seen or heard of it , even from past and current owners 

Even VWC calls it the first Spitfire “made in Canada “ 

So there is a fair bit of provenance then?

No Spitfire to see here..

I read your posts with interest Fleet16b, about the Canadian recreation Spitfire and guessed you meant TE294, but I was a little puzzled by it. Your last post makes it perfectly clear where you were coming from. This last post would have caused a flurry of activity by now on the old forum.?

The VWC Spitfire was is not actual a restoration rather it is a recreation

There was no actual airframe to start with 

The aircraft is a replica/new build Everything was built in Canada 

I think in the end they purchased an indentity in England and attached it to this project.

Like the majority of Spitfires flying , this one really has 0 provenance at all and is a replica 

Its been estimated that of the 50-55 “Spitfires” flying only about 25 are actual real ones with history . The rest are dataplate copies. 

Te392 flew on ANZAC day here in Brisbane,Australia last.They are booking for camera op flights from Archerfield.
https://fighterpilot.com.au/flights/fly-with-a-spitfire

Cam, forgot to mention that by my estimates, the VWoC replica Spitfire was/is the most expensive Spitfire restoration to date. Even with buying one set of wings and setting up and building another pair, every part of the restoration was costly in both time and money.

  The Firefly is in one piece again and looks complete. It certainly wont be run or taxied again though. Most of the repairs and damage has been looked after . The propeller has been rebuilt using the original blades. This picture was taken in December 2019, I don’t think it would look much different today.

Mrp