Maffett Hurricane Wreckage. Was in RAFM Battle of Britain Hall Hendon. Missing

Halifax cockpit section…. :highly_amused:

Of course there is the one at Duxford that I wish was more accessible still. Are any plans for that one known?

Nice pics of R9371’s cockpit remains. Didn’t know there was a windscreen frame in store at Stafford, but then again it’s a bit like Alladin’s cave. Pity that nothing is being done to the Halifax cockpit remains although the UK will be gaining one soon……

RatAcc: you have missed your true vocation. Unless you’re either Gilbert, Sullivan or Rice.

The Empress’s New Hangar

Isn’t it ooh…?
Isn’t it ahh…?
Isn’t it absolutely wheeee…?

The new display is altogether…
But altogether…
It’s altogether…
It’s altogether the biggest load of tosh I’ve ever seen…

They saw a hall with WARPLANES in it…
And in a minute…
They said “Let’s bin it…!!”
“So WE can just tell STORIES ’bout the RAF they’ve never seen…”
“Might get a gong from the Queen…!!”

I have to say Rocketeer the Battle of Britain hall is sadly missed by many as well, i have to agree with a lot that you have said i also spent many a day there and visited the collection 7 to 8 times a year up until last year, yes there is a lot still there to view but some how for me personally its just dosnt feel the same.

But of course thats my own opinion.

I have to agree with Bruce in regards to artefacts that are never likely to be displayed, for example P/O Maffets Hurricane surely if there is no intention in displaying such relics then surely they could be either donated or lent to other collections, im sure there are many Museums (one in particular) that would gladly display such an iconic aircraft and one that i personally spent many a time viewing with a chill down my spine as this aircraft is such a powerful monument that must go back on display in the very near future.

But maybe P/O Maffets Hurricane is being restored like it has been suggested, but if not then please do the right thing and get this aircraft back into the public’s domain.

I’m glad that the Hurricane will be returning. Thanx for the info Foray, your work in rescuing her is appreciated.

FB, Disappointed that you feel that way about my thoughts on the Hurricane. I regularly looked at the Hurri at least once a year. It had not deteriorated. The disingenuous way that the public were told that the removal of the BoB Hall contents was all conservation was again disappointing.

Nuuumann, I am all for looking forward and covering all aspects of RAF history especially the huge sacrifices that are still being made by current as well as past personnel. I am also well aware of the demographic of museum visitors. I am connected to a museum that appeals to the whole demographic. I do not whinge constantly, but I have a right to my opinion as do you. Removing the BoB Hall was akin to the RN removing HMS Victory from display IMHO. That said, the RAFM still has a wealth of wonderful exhibits to make it a great day out. I still visit. But I am allowed to miss the BoB Hall. When I was a student from the countryside in the big smoke, fortnightly trips to see the BoBH allowed me to keep sane, love aircraft and marvel at my heroes. That at a time when the Few had just led the major money raising to enable the RAFM to establish a permanent BoBH. Now the Few are so few.

Seeing phots of Tony Southerns Halibag brought back memories of a great preservationist and organisation. Tony helped a very young Tony in many ways

As far back as the early 70s, an Air International article identified the stuffiness of a museum filled full of aircraft with display boards and an upper gallery of medal holder biographies. ‘A magnificent museum, but what happened to humour?’ it summed up. 45 years on, we’ve learnt much about learning. If the RAFM emulates the revamped AAM model of inspiring the next generation, it gets my vote.

Bruce, I could well imagine your friend would not have come up with mess that the RAF Museum have now created in the BoB hall if he was in overall charge? Unfortunately, it appears, there is now a layer of senior management who have not risen through the ranks and are not subject experts but seem to have been recruited from various organisations that have little to do with aviation or the RAF. They wield the power and they have ultimately signed off the design (If not what function do they perform?). They have, in my opinion, desecrated the original BoB hall including the Maffett Hurricane exhibit and have dispersed the collections and heavily diluted the offer. Who designed that hat display? What the hell were they thinking? I am sorry for banging on about this but after my visit I was in a real state of shock as to how badly the ‘revamp’ had gone. The Sunderland ‘hacking’ is a national disgrace – can you imagine the outcry if one of the stones at Stonehenge was knocked down to extend some space for a burger van…?

The museum has lost its soul.

I have not been to Hendon for around a year so can not massively comment on the two new exhibitions. I am saddened by the BofB hall, they could have easily kept a core of BofB aircraft and still celebrated the 100th with other exhibits. One thing has struck me on visits over the past 2-3 years are the staff/volunteers in the halls, I am unsure which category they fit into? The ones I have spoken to seem to lack basic knowledge and are more there to keep the kids under control and direct people to the toilets etc. Come pare them to the enthusiasts I met at both Old Sarum and Bournemouth museums this year and they are in a different league. In my experience if the RAFM could recruit such volunteers it would be a much better place.

Back to the management for a moment, a very good friend of mine is responsible for the collections at RAFM – he has never been in the services (not sure what that has to do with anything), and is an enthusiast to his core.

Ultimately they have to do the best they can with the resources they have. I would not expect to see every single artefact restored and on display. Equally, if there are artefacts that are likely never to be displayed, or perhaps that are of questionable relevance, I would hope they are moved on. We do see the national museums disposing of items on a regular basis, and many other smaller collections have benefitted over the years.

If its gone to Stafford’s “Reserve Collection” it will probably never be seen again. When CARG folded up its tent; Tony Southern’s Halifax cockpit section (ex-10 Sqn Halifax B MK.2, srs 1. R9371, ZA-Z) was sent there. Unfortunately, the RAF Museum Reserve Collection, Stafford seem to have their own ideas as to disposition of their artifacts.
As far as I am aware, the remains of R9371 are still sitting on the same transit pallet which they collected from the CARG premises at Innsworth almost eleven years ago, together with a crate which contained an almost complete cockpit windscreen frame and the armoured glass bulkhead behind the pilot’s head; together with a lot more component parts that Tony collected for the proposed restoration.

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”custom”,”height”:”244″,”width”:”537″,”data-attachmentid”:3839481}[/ATTACH]

For my sins. I was responsible for restoration of the Pilot seat and the control column before it was transferred.
The only things Stafford reciprocated were a pair of .303 Brownings for inclusion in the Hudson Turret we restored for the Hendon museum display… and they even got that a tad wrong by supplying a pair of live Brownings which gave the Innsworth armoury bod a pair of twisted panties!

Nicely put Lobster: I think that’s the crux. Some museums (usually the best ones) are run fully by enthusiastic and knowledgeable folks, while others it would seem are now being managed by people who just want to make a name for themselves.

I did look up the dictionary meaning of the term, ‘museum’ and found that it relates to, “…a building in which objects of historical, scientific, artistic, or cultural interest are stored and exhibited.” That certainly fitted the bill for the ‘old’ RAFM, but maybe not so much the ‘new’. So maybe they just need to re-name it and avoid confusion? Then other museums can step in and exhibit our relics instead.

Returning to Rocketeer’s main point concerning the future of Maffett’s Hurricane, the response I got from the museum at the beginning of the year was that it had been placed in store at
Stafford pending its return to Hendon following the completion of the centenary celebrations. Bruce’s post at #16 para 3 makes a valid point.

As I said, I don’t go to the RAF Museum to shop but to see the great collection they have. The current ‘management’ team have allowed a once great Battle of Britain museum to be dismantled and turned into a shadow of its former self. If they had any empathy they wouldn’t have ‘butchered’ the Sunderland to sell more quiches. I bet all of the management team couldn’t sit down and give you a detailed history of the RAF and explain the significance of the aircraft they have now put in store or moved to Cosford. They might as well be running a hat museum…..

I think that they could have easily have taken the core of the museum as it was and modernised it and paid homage to a great establishment whilst bringing it up to date. They just needed the knowledge and love of the subject to do a good job.

The reference to Peter Jackson is interesting – look at the effort he has personally put into ‘They shall not grow old’. That’s because he has the knowledge and empathy.

In defence of the RAFM shop at Hendon, when compared to museums of many different themes up and down the nation it isn’t that bad at all: it has the usual offerings and a bit more. I’m a pretty frequent visitor because of DoRIS and think the shop’s book selection is reasonably varied, the second-hand section is always worth a good look too. As far as the specific area of models is concerned, they cater for what will sell, no use complaining about that, it’s a sensible approach. The London branch of what is probably Britain’s biggest plastic model emporium is only 200 metres away from the car park too and it’s stock is also limited and much less than their old shop by the station used to be, that is the way retail has gone.

That’s just the problem Bunsen…
Because they’re not “Service” people, and have little or no connection with the RAF, they have no empathy with and for the artefacts in their care.
Putting aircraft up on poles in semi-darkness, in a straight and level attitude, so all you can see is the underside.
Stripping the Sunderland Hall of everything but the Sunderland, to make a large cafe.
Shortening, modifying or whatever they did to the Sunderland float support struts just so they could get more tables and chairs under them.
Cramming the aircraft removed from The Battle of Britain Hall into the other halls, where it’s difficult to get a good view of them and appreciate them for what they are, warplanes.
And whatever their nationality, British, German, Italian, etc, friend or foe, whatever part they played, pristine or wreck, they’re still part of the RAF history.
​​​​​
I seem to recall it being drummed into me during my 22 years in the RAF as an aircraft technician, that our job in peace was to prepare for war. The Battle of Britain exhibition was an important part of the RAF history, of a war, (albeit a generation before me and my proud RAF service history) and while most of the aircraft were only representative of the types involved, they told the story of “our finest hour”, all in one place.
I went to Hendon a few weeks ago, the day after attending a football match at Wembley.
I’ll be polite and say that I was underwhelmed by what the RAFM have done, to the point that I found it embarrassing. A cross between a kid’s play park, amusement arcade and a theme park.
Sorry but a cardboard cut out of the Vicar of Dibley and the station goat does nothing for me at all.

Why do they need to have served in the military? A completely different skill set is need to run a museum. Yes they have to understand the area covered by the museum but this requires empathy and the ability to absorb and use knowledge.

These are the people running the RAF Museum…

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/about-us/our-senior-leadership-team.aspx

none of them served in any branch of the military, the CEO’s father was in the RAF during World War 2, so I suppose that qualifies, but the rest…?

With regard to the RAF Museum, it is quite true that the ‘main leader’ is not a specialist in the field, but it is also the case that her management team quite definitely are. In my opinion, it has been updated to give it more relevance to the wider public, and to hopefully generate more visitors (I haven’t seen it yet; in fact I haven’t been there for years). Does this ‘Dumb Down’ the offering? Or does it give it a fresh approach?

I mentioned earlier that the shops at IWM and RAFM have changed to cater more for the masses owing to the growth of the internet. It isn’t just the shop that has had to change there though. If we have an interest in a specific area, we no longer need to visit museums. For general interest, we can find most of what we need a few clicks away. For wider understanding, there are a huge range of very good, specialist books available to us, and again, just a click away. I think one has to consider what the role of the artefact actually is in a museum these days. A dusty aeroplane standing in a dark corner doesn’t tell us anything any more, and wont bring the punters in. Evolution of the offer is essential to any organisation.

Going back to Tony’s original point, that particular exhibit was much more than another dusty aeroplane. One could look into that cockpit knowing a man ended his life there. The futility of it all writ large. It may be that it would be better placed in the IWM for that reason. It may also be that the IWM is the better museum to tell the story of the battle. Ultimately, it is their responsibility to present the history of ‘War’ in relation to the empire, and to the country we have today, and the RAFM’s, to tell the story of the RAF; notwithstanding that part of their job was, and is to fight in wars!