US Senator John McCain dies aged 81

Hi All,
All I will say at the moment is there are plenty of viewable Youtube allegations while I suspect a lot are unfounded some are more than likely true. Many ridicule Youtube but it can be a mine of information I would say it would be down to the individual to watch then research a bit before committing to a comment really. I will make further comments after a couple of weeks on this subject just out of respect for the dead.

Geoff.

They say never speak ill of the dead. However, some people have done things that could disqualify them from the usual acts of decorum. Don’t look to the disaster on the USS Forrestal for the root of why some may not like McCain. It was his behaviour during and after this that give a portent to his actions as a Politian. As they always say follow the money. This is the key and opens pandoras box, especially after Clinton lost the election in 2016. But the list is long and goes back some time.

I understand what you say but don’t agree with you, how foolish we look when you consider Ted Heath, Jimmy Saville, and how we lauded them. Winston Churchill had his faults but then he was the man of that time, in our own interest Guy Gibson and Douglas Bader were not liked very much but did the job and gained the respect.
If it does prove correct or even partly so, about J.M there’s going to be some egg flying about…

Hi All,
I feel saddened by comments (I do understand why though) that could have waited for a week or two after he was laid to rest, then would have been more appropriate to light the blue touch paper of Mr McCains whatever life surely ? I dare say that many of our aviation hero’s all had another side to
them that we will never know or have come to light until such times as it is deemed ok to release whatever…:apologetic:

Geoff.

If we had had Trump as prime minister!! ,i guess we will have the EU eating out of our hands like Trump has the wall built by the mexicans 🙂 and all the other lies and BS he has spouted in the last year -oh fake news 😉 .He and his colleagues make our snivelling nose in the trough fiddling MP’s look like naughty children.

Sadly it’s a lot easier to trash somebody when they’re dead and unable to answer for themselves.

One only has to look at the respect in which Obama (is held – still – in the world) and the laughing stock across the world the childish moronic buffoon drumpf is to see what a load of, to quote the (not so) great man, “fake news” you peddle Matt.

Like Jack Windsor I have been reasearching McCain and coming up with the same.

Now the faslehoods I have seen spread largely by Trump supporters (or more likely in many caases trolls in support of Trump) is the McCain started the fire by wet starting his A4 that cooked off a missile in another aircraft. That is BS.

His actions during and after the event bear closer scrutiny especially as his own accounts differ with other veterans and his own.

There have been several associates, fund raisers, friends and cohorts who have been charged, and not small stuff either.

REzko? Obama was dumb dealing with him but he wasn’t the only politician to do so.
Ayers. Being appointed to the same board doesn’t mean you’re best mates.
A couple more but you really need to dig to find them.
In government to only indictment was General Petraeus.
And its noting to the scale of what is being dug up about the Trump administration. Nixon will have to settle for being in second place.

I’ve been googling McCain and there are many results of where his version of the USS Forrestal accident differs from the none facts, ie his plane was not struck by the missile, the 1000lb bomb not 2 dropped from his plane, he was not wounded, he did leave the ship with a reporter when only severely wounded were being evacuated, and when they had the memorial service for the dead on board the following day he was in Saigon on R&R…but he did not wet start his A.4 has all the planes on the rear of the ship were facing inboard, as a diagram in the official naval inquiry report shows

as a previous poster says his life and actions will now be under closer examination…

And in a reply to Matt Gunsch, though I do respect that you have a right to your opinion, I wonder if you can tell us how many of Obama’s close associates have been indicted on criminal charges versus Trump’s?

It is had to get an indictment when the Dept of justice is in their back pocket, If you look at all the scandals that occurred when obummer was in office, everyone one of them was shoved under the carpet, hillerary having a private email server with classified data on it ? nothing to see move on, with the FBI interviewing her about it, off the record with no notes ? How about a little airport ramp meeting between a top DOJ officer and bill Clinton, even though that officer could file charges against his wife, Clinton was there to talk about their grandkids, but there since no one was allowed on the planes, no one knows what was talked about.

If you in the UK had someone like Trump as the Prime Minister, you would all ready be out of the EU and they would be paying you. There is an inherent problem with politicians, there are too many of them…..

A US politician, by virtue of the engagement of the United States in both world wars, and the postwar US consensus around the global investment of US taxpayer dollars and power, is not just a local representative. The whole world takes its cues from the United States. There have been a whole generation of US politicians that were formed or informed by the Depression, World War 2 and the Cold War who are fading out. Understanding that US power was purchased on the beaches of Omaha or Iwo Jima, or even Vietnam, gave some insight and balance to this generation. Understanding suffering gave a maturity to their words, thoughts and conduct. It is this that is fearful in the passing of this generation, of which McCain, for all his faults, was an exemplar. Now we are entering an age of a less poised, less tactful,less assured America. Mistaking noise for substance, careless of old friends, thinking the world is just a game of cards where you can push every hand as a Royal Flush. There was something bigger than John McCain in the United States, and when you looked at it, it was a whole lot of John McCains. Vale.

I believe that in the not too distant future the true side of John McCain will become very apparent. The truth of what happened on the USS Forestal has not been published, and nore what happened to McCain whilst in a POW camp. A bit like the dark side of George H W Bush. Just because these guys we aviators and we are all aviation enthusiests it does not follow that all aviators who put their lives on the line are paragons of virtue. I suggest everyone does some deep research before they are too fulsome in their praise of John McCain. Just saying and dont shoot the messenger before you look hard. By the way McCains death was telegraphed a few days before he died, so those fully awake and fully aware of whats going on in this mad world of ours were not suprised in the slightest.

An honourable, respectful and moral politician, whether you shared his views or not, you could always respect him. Many attributes the current childish incumbent is severely lacking. RIP.

There have been several

I’ll have my say on McCain.
I can’t fault hik for is bravery and dedication to his country.
Whereas his escapades in civilian and politics -at least until be became a rare critical voice the teh GOP- will be looked upon less kindly.
And there is no harm in in that. Everything John McCain did in politics he did willingly and we owe future historians the truth.

What is striking is how willingly many of Trump’s followers have fallen for the lies about his time on captivity in N. Vietnam and on the USS Forrestal purely because they are aping Trump’s rather petty and vindictive opinons. He never does seem able to take criticism well.
From a party that likes to see itself as champions of the military I find that rather striking.

And in a reply to Matt Gunsch, though I do respect that you have a right to your opinion, I wonder if you can tell us how many of Obama’s close associates have been indicted on criminal charges versus Trump’s?

There have been several associates, fund raisers, friends and cohorts who have been charged, and not small stuff either.

It is a sorry thing to see that an honorable man like McCain is regarded with such deep disrespect by some people simply because he did the right thing and displayed his repugnance at the lack of honesty, morality and civilised values that now exists in the Republican Party at its upper levels. Vale John McCain I may not have agreed with everything you said but you were a man who earned respect.

I’ll have my say on McCain.
I can’t fault hik for is bravery and dedication to his country.
Whereas his escapades in civilian and politics -at least until be became a rare critical voice the teh GOP- will be looked upon less kindly.
And there is no harm in in that. Everything John McCain did in politics he did willingly and we owe future historians the truth.

What is striking is how willingly many of Trump’s followers have fallen for the lies about his time on captivity in N. Vietnam and on the USS Forrestal purely because they are aping Trump’s rather petty and vindictive opinons. He never does seem able to take criticism well.
From a party that likes to see itself as champions of the military I find that rather striking.

And in a reply to Matt Gunsch, though I do respect that you have a right to your opinion, I wonder if you can tell us how many of Obama’s close associates have been indicted on criminal charges versus Trump’s?

QUOTE(Yes, You have my sympathy having a Buffoon as president.)
No, we HAD a buffoon as a president for 8 years,

Yes, You have my sympathy having a Buffoon as president.

Quote(Indeed sad news – there far too few people of his calibre in Washington at the moment. )

thank god for that one of him was one too many., there are many more like him in the house and senate, but they did not serve in the military, they are called democrats. Mccain looked out for two things, himself and his ego. He tried to cripple general aviation in the US, he voted more against the wishes of the people of Arizona than with them. Barry Goldwater was a legend in the State of Arizona and I never heard anyone say a bad thing about him, Mccain and his wife on the hand have left a poor legacy with many people, myself included. I had dealings with both of them at different times, and both were underhanded.
Yhose on this forum only know what you read about him, I am in Phoenix AZ, and had to put up with him for too long.

Spources please, Chad. Provide sources likes Snopes does.
:stupid:

In relation to the USS Forrestal fire, it would be as well not to repeat what has been shown to be a completely false allegation.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jo…uss-forrestal/

Yes, because Snopes has been proven to be an entirely unbiased source. :rolleyes: