Cosford: Ex Hendon Defiant

thank’s mate top stuff

Greetings from Australia. I was fortunate to have had a personally guided tour of the RAFM by Dr Fopp, as I did a sound recording with him for later replay on ABC Radio. One of the points he made was that that they were preserving these aeroplanes so that they will still be seen in 4-500 years. Perhaps they’re still a bit “new”?

I think I’m too used to spending time at the Shuttleworth collection; ‘museums’ aren’t really the right environment for old aeroplanes!

The RAAF Museum at Pt Cook had an incident during one of their Interactive Flying Displays a few years ago – there was an engine fire on start-up, from memory. Response from elsewhere on the base was not great, and now the Museum staff/volunteers are trained in the provided fire-fighting equipment. You can even see the gear in the photo at
https://www.airforce.gov.au/sites/g/files/net3736/f/minisite/static/1469/RAAFmuseum/exhibitions/inter_display.htm

Very true about Hendon and engineers, but I also wouldn’t want to run the engine of a World War One wood-and-fabric aeroplane without adequate fire-fighting appliances in attendance; in fact I wouldn’t want any rare vintage aircraft run without them in attendance…

…and Hendon just isn’t that sort of museum.

Although I’d love to see some of the rare aircraft from the RAF Museum do engine runs I think it would probably be too much of a culture change for the museum as it currently stands; aircraft, especially old aircraft, just don’t stay in runnable condition unless they are maintained in that condition through a proper schedule of maintenance when they are run and being inhibited when they aren’t. Plus the damn things will drip oil all over the museum floor and upset the visitors who’ll think they’re not being looked-after properly!

Which is ironic really, as dripping oil everywhere is probably a sign that the engine is being properly preserved!

I recall an interview with Dr Fopp, when the collection at Saint Athan was moved to Cosford and Hendon. “In order to maintain the FW190 in engine running condition you need engineers, and Hendon does not have those resources”

Cannot see why not at Cosford though.

Substantial parts of the RAFM Bulldog had been stored by Shuttleworth over the years and progressively sold off. The last part sold was effectively the last four feet of fuselage to Hawkinge. So coupled with the RAFM holdings a lot did survive post crash just in poor condition.

Are there any Defiant projects out there? do the drawings still exist?

It does seem odd they’d camouflage an aircraft with flat black then paint a large yellow bordered roundel on it.

Creaking door ; When at St. Athan they used to run the FW-190 2 seater, the Me-410 and the Kawasaki Ki-100, dont think they ever ran the Dinah .
Great idea though in theory, could do a similar thing at Hendon with some like the recently restored Albatross for example.

Not sure if you were talking to me or Creaking Door but here are the other two I took.

I agree that the bright roundels are a bit odd – but then there are lots of documented instances of the red and blue not being toned down in wartime as we all expect to see (Gloster-built Hurricanes are the one that comes to mind) so who knows, maybe it’s correct.

As for getting a complete, intact sole survivor flying – the aforementioned Bristol Bulldog is a perfect example of why this is a bad idea. One slip during a display and you end up with your sole survivor rolled into a ball of metal and a priceless piece of history lost – the Bulldog had to be rebuilt almost from scratch after its prang in the 1960s. People will of course raise the example of aircraft like the Fury K5674 – but it’s a bit different when you start with a heap of mangled rusty parts…

great shot of her mate, any more shot’s of her ??

I can see the source for the markings in this article where pics show the large roundel segments and also choose lettering of the non standard style http://www.thescale.info/news/publish/printer_polands-nightfighters.shtml
Early displays pre latest restoration chose red for the letters.

The Defiant looks stunning out in the sunlight on the grass. The airplane takes on a whole different “feel” when you get it out of museum environment. I agree with Creaking Door that it would be a worthwhile endeavor to bring some of these aircraft out of doors once in a while for photography purposes. Surely there would be some money to be made for a limited effort on the museum’s part, no? While definitely a far fetched notion, the thought of seeing a Defiant in flight is an exciting one.

The super-matt finish on the Defiant is probably what makes it look a little bit two-dimensional, but it is accurate. The RAF tried to use this new type of extra matt Night Finish from 1940-1942 but it was found to wear down quickly into a semi-matt in many places (hence the very scrappy looking finishes seen in some archive pics). It also affected performance, and was withdrawn in favour of a more conventional paint.

Lovely to see the Defiant out in the sun, I’m guessing she would have got quite hot to the touch in some places.

My only question about the paintjob would be the later style fin-flash with the early roundels. Knowing the reputation of MAPS, I’m guessing this is unusual but accurate?

Even if the Defiant didn’t fly, it would be amazing to see the turret powered-up on the ground with the engine-running and the front and rear ‘coamings’ move up and down. Could the Defiant do that originally, for ground-testing?

A number of aircraft were retained by the companies that built them, Wellington MF628, The Fulmar that is on show at Yeovilton, Spitfire AB910, Hurricane Pz865, Bristol Bulldog…

not sure if the Wellington flew at shows but she certainly was fired up for the Dambusters movie, in the post war configuration.

Certainly the wing had collision damage which M.A.P.S did their best to correct without jigs. But if I remember correctly the Merlin was a low houred (under 100?) unit.
mmitch.

Anything can be made airworthy, given enough time and money; and since this aircraft went straight from RAF service into preservation and has spent the vast majority (even all?) of that time indoors, and has a Merlin engine, I would say the Defiant would be easer than most to get back in the air.

They were death-traps in combat, but I’ve never heard anything uncomplimentary about their airworthiness.

Personally, given the state of the art currently, I would risk this unique airframe for a very limited season; who knows how long the skills, or the interest, will still be around?

Apart from her being very rare does anyone know why she couldn’t be made airworthy? Like is there a fault with her not that it’s owned by the museum