Luftwaffe's Attacks on Britain 1941-1945 (Images of War) ANDY SAUNDERS

There are other coordinates the intelligence officer could have used to pin point Thorney Island. If you change the coordinates slightly, a few close combinations still land on the island. Thus meaning he had a choice of coordinates to choose from to offer as the closest option for tha crash site. I think the specific choice he made would have been in the general vicinity of the crash site he was investigating.

Big thank you to Ian and Aviart

I believe the four figure map reference is primarily there to confirm the location as Thorney Island.

I have since received some documents detailing the crash (but not yet the location). The aircraft powered into the ground at a very steep angle. The engines and front of the cockpit were buried and the rest of the aircraft was completely destroyed/burnt. Two 15mg’s and two external bomb racks along with a few other bits were recovered. With regard to the crew “small pieces” were found and buried locally in four coffins (no doubt with a few sand bags) with military honours.

The engines should give a good signal.

Would anyone care to hazard a guess at what depth the engines would be found? I know it would depend on the local ground conditions.

Thanks again, Mike

I live hardly a stones throw from Thorney ‘Island’, have flown over what might be a hundred times and occasionally landed, and, additionally, sailed around that part of Chichester harbour probably as many.

Thorney ‘Island’ is roughly square in outline and is no longer an island being short of water on the North side. The seabed around the other three sides is, or was, littered with aircraft wrecks. Thorney is small and the sea around is big. With that in mind, it’s my guess that a majority of aircraft would willy nilly have gone into the sea either completely or partially.

Thorney was a target because of the nearness of Portsmouth and more emphatically because of the presence of deliberately lit fires on nearby Hayling Island acting as decoy beacons to convince Luftwaffe pilots to bomb the wrong place ! The proximity of Westhampnett and Tangmere added to the rather busy day and night aerial shenanigans making this part of the British Isles a rather promising scrap metal collection facility.

Go to “new conversion”

In the “2/ Enter the “Modified British System” coordinates to be decoded.” text field enter: wQ1924

On the results page on the map at the bottom switch to satellite and zoom in to see the location. Not sure how precise, but a note of imprecision varying from 150 to 1000 meters on the field is given.

The map reference should be “wQ1924” on the British Cassini Grid:

http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-translation.php

Not quite on the aerodrome…

The A.I.1.(k) reports are generally only recordings of information that would be of use to the intelligence branches. Prisoner interrogation reports and or further investigation of unknown or specialist equipment carried by the aircraft.

The Ju 88 A-5 was not particularly interesting to the intelligence chaps by this point. It had been around for a good few months and other examples would have been examined prior to this incident. There is nothing to suggest that this aircraft would have been carrying any special equipment. Also, we need to take into consideration the state of the wreckage. Which is recorded as being pretty catastrophic. No markings were ascertainable and they had to guess the number of crewmembers. So a bit of a mess…

What I’m trying to get at is that what with all of the crew being killed and no reason to get excited by the wreckage I doubt there would have been any real reason to follow up the initial A.I.1.(g) crash report with a A.I.1.(k) report. So your search for it might not be very fruitful.

The A.I.1.(g) report contains nothing further on the location other than “Thorney Island Aerodrome, Portsmouth. Map Reference: Q.1924”

Your best line of enquiry would be to try and make contact with any of the older generations in the area who might remember the incident, but sadly that is a slim chance given the years. You might also try Google Earth. It contains satellite imagery and you might be able to see some areas that look like old filled in craters and burnt earth. Again a long shot, but you never know you might be able to cross-reference the satellite imagery on Google Earth with the given map reference: Q1924?.

Hi Mike
Had a look at that file but, sorry, it is just an general index file for the AI 1 (k) reports, with the listings only given in very general category terms, not detailed enough to identify which of the reports you’d then need to locate.
For example a section is for reports about “Enemy Aircraft”, one subsection then being say for the “Junkers 88” – then a list of maybe 30 different report numbers that’ll refer to matters concerning Ju 88s.
Ian

Maybe we can see which file contains the individual Report that you think might be the one you’re looking for.

Matt

PM sent

Thanks Mike

Hi, Mike,

If you haven’t secured a copy of the book yet, I might have found a copy, which for me, including postage, is $27.62 (20.59 pounds, at present). I don’t want to post the site here, because someone else might gobble up the one copy, so if you write me a PM, I’ll tell you more.

Cheers,

Matt

Hi Ian

That would be amazing if you could I ask very nicely with a promise of lunch the next time you are in Cornwall!

The exact location would be amazing but just narrowing down would help with the GPR / magnetic resistivity survey.

The file reference I have is RAF Airforce Intelligence AI 1 (k) 166/1941

The index for these appears to be AIR40/2969

There is a file AIR40/2964 which covers these reports but has a misleading title so it is either wrong or misleading as many are. Here is a link to the search page-

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=AIR+INTELLIGENCE+1%28K%29

We believe that a lot of the wreckage was removed but that there is still quite a bit down there.

Huge thanks for your interest

Best regards

Mike Mcleod

If you ask me nicely I might (time and work permitting) be able to take a look at that file for you. I work not far from TNA.
Is it details of the exact crash location you’re after?
Ian

Hi Ian

Thanks for trying! The information regarding the aircraft is as follows –

Mission: Attack on Portsmouth, England.

Date: 18th April 1941

Time: 2.15 a.m.

Unit: 2 Staffel./Kampfgeschwader 54

Type: Junkers Ju 88A-5

Werke/Nr. 6025

Coded: B3 + GK

The details (excluding the precise location) are on this excellent website

http://aircrewremembrancesociety.co.uk/styled-15/styled-18/styled-133/index.html

I have tried unsuccessfully to contact this excellent website.

There is a file reference which I believe is in TNA Kew AIR40/2969 (?) which I am chasing – doesn’t help that it is not digitised and I live in Cornwall!

Any thoughts most welcome

Mike

Hi Mike

Not the book you’re after, but Vol 8 of Nigel Parker’s “Luftwaffe Crash Archive” series says Ju88C-4, Wnr 0345, R4+BM, of 4/NJG2 crashed at Hurns Farm, Gedney Hill, nr Thorney, Cambs at 21:23 hrs.

It says the reason for the crash was not clear but the a/c was on fire in the air and dived vertically into soft clay, being almost entirely buried.

So little was left that the crash report notes were very brief. It says the site was excavated in November 1978, when the a/c identity and the fate of the crew was established. O/gefr Wilhelm Beetz and 2 others killed. Now buried Cannock Chase.

Don’t know whether any of this helps?

Ian

ps Ha! Ignore the above. Just turned back a page and it mentions another crash on the same night on Thorney Island Airfield, Portsmouth at 02:00. No details of the precise location though.

How strange is that: two crashes the same night at completely different places with just about the same name!!

https://www.booktopia.com.au/luftwaffe-s-attacks-on-britain-1941-1945-andy-saunders/prod9781783030255.html
here’s a start! About £21 but dont know the postage.
……and sorry I just read the blurb and it says that it is not in stock and has to be ordered from the supplier so probably back to square one. Sorry for wasting your time!