Can you identify these two aircraft?

Originally posted by pogno
Tom Campbell Black’s British Empire Air Display used Scion G-ADDT hired from Pobjoy Motors and wearing the colours of Gaumont British News, it crashed at Porthcawl 26/7/36 and they also had Avro 504N’s G-ACZC, G-AECR w/o 10/5/36, and another unknown.

According to the Scran website (http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-128-633-C&scache=5ih1puux07&searchdb=scran) G-ADDT had an interesting history –

The Short Scion II shown here was first registered on January 20th 1936 to Pobjoy Airmotors of Rochester and was flown by GE Gardiner from Croydon to India on 21 Jan 1936 returning on 13 March 1936 having flown 15,932 miles on the trip.
The aircraft then joined the H Campbell Black air display company where it visited pageants such as this one at Kirkcaldy in July 1936. The aircraft was written off in a crash at Porthcawl only a week later on 26th July 1936.

The excellent accompanying image is,unfortunately,subject to copyright and visible only as a thumbnail until you log in.

My cropped version of the original photo will still show up as small on the forum, but hit ctrl and + as many times as necessary to enlarge the screen (not just the aircraft image), in order to study the aircraft a bit better. (Hitting ctrl and – will diminish the size of the screen, including the aircraft image.)

Definitely a Scion.

Tom Campbell Black’s British Empire Air Display used Scion G-ADDT hired from Pobjoy Motors and wearing the colours of Gaumont British News, it crashed at Porthcawl 26/7/36 and they also had Avro 504N’s G-ACZC, G-AECR w/o 10/5/36, and another unknown.
G-ADDT was mentioned in a previous thread http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?109553-Cobham-s-Flying-Circus but the picture has gone due to photobuckets money grab, but if you do an image search on the registration you can see it, the car it that picture looks newer than you expect for 1936.
Picture of the Scion here http://www.baaa-acro.com/1936/archives/crash-of-a-short-s-16-scion-in-united-kingdom/
Richard

I think the the. Short Scion was part of Tom Campbell Black’s British Empire Air Display which did visit Hayling aerodrome on July 18th 1936 according to The Aeroplane of the 22nd July. Did they have an Avro 504 as well? The weather was not great that day and I don’t think there was much flying according to the following:

1936 July – Tom Campbell Black’s British Empire Air Display came to Hayling Aerodrome.
They arrived on the 18th of July from Southampton to give an afternoon performance.
Unfortunately, due extremely strong winds the whole display was grounded, nothing could be done. At the end of the day, aircraft were made secure for the night and log-books filled in. Then, early the next morning, the whole circus had to move on again, this time to Dartford.
With this particular display team were two pioneering women pilots, Miss Dorothy Spicer and Miss Pauline Gower. Pauline was Chief Pilot and Dorothy was Senior Engineer.

“Women with Wings”
By Pauline Gower and Dorothy Spicer (1938)
Extracts from Pauline Gower’s diary about T. Campbell Black’s “British Empire Air display”.
“…..the weather we experienced during the tour was anything but pleasant. Hardly a day went by without rain and we seemed to chase the bad weather round. Often we left one place in brilliant sunshine and arrived at the next town about seventy or eighty miles away in a rainstorm. These bad meteorological conditions made the flights from town to town very difficult and on most occasions visibility was poor…..”

The Aeroplane, July 22nd, 1936.
“The Portsmouth Party”
Portsmouth’s Aero Club its annual garden party at the municipal Airport on July 18. The two air races for the Peters Challenge Cup and the Portsmouth Air trophy were flown in a steady gale from the South which caused the Committee wisely to cancel the race round the Isle of Wight and to substitute a shorter 62 mile course…..
Tom Campbell Black’s team at Hayling for the day was grounded by the breeze and the Scion and lesser transport-of-joy stood chocked and idle while the racing pilots crawled over them.
…..The second race was three circuits of a short course (total 33½ miles) from Portsmouth airport round Hayling and Thorney Islands…..

Air Britain’s Those Fabulous Flying Years does not list North Hayling as a destination during CWA Scott’s 1936 Tour of the UK.

This looks to be a case for daveg4otu! He’s probably most knowledgeable about Hampshire airfields of this period and what went on at them. You might want to send him a PM, Mgman07.

If Mgman07 is correct in his assertion that this photograph was taken at North Hayling Aerodrome, that discounts Miles Aerovans (the twin in the photograph looks nothing like an Aerovan) and post 1945 cars as this aerodrome did not re-open after the Second War. I’m with those who aver that the photograph shows a Short Scion and an Avro 504 (probably a 504N). Unfortunately I’ve failed to find a programme of dates for C W A Scott’s Flying Display Ltd.. However as it took over the assets of Sir Alan Cobham’s flying circus and was dissolved in the same year, it’s only necessary to see if Scott’s operation visited North Hayling in 1936.

The cars in the background look later than 45 types and I am not convinced by the tail of the A/C on the ground as 504 just not quite right but could be the angle

Certainly a Scion. CWA Scott’s Flying circus used Scion G-ACJI in their 1936 tour and they had Avro 504N’s in the fleet that year. I wonder if they visited North Hayling.

Richard

Definitely a Scion.

There weren’t many 504s flying by the time the Aerovan appeared in 1945, thereby suggesting an earlier aircraft.

Not an Aerovan. I’d suggest a Short Scion.

Hi MGMan,
Think that is a Miles Aerovan flying over from left to right. They had a large crew glazed area and the nose looks right too.

Bill T.

The aircraft on the ground looks like an Avro 504 from the shape of the rudder