Hawker Hector IAHC-004

Well not at all John, great insight into problem solving , external cargo reminds me of the Papua New Guinea Junkers in the 30s which carried cranes and other heavy kit for the gold fields. They just removed the cabin roof and the crane stuck into the fresh air!

The Viastra II in the photo was fitted with a direct drive Jupiter VI to port and a geared Jupiter XI.F to starboard. The VI’s were taken from DH Hercules and often fitted due to the many failures of the XI in desert conditions, it is recorded that performance didn’t change much except for cruise consumption, according to Andrews and Morgan (Putnams). The engine underneath appears to be a VI.

I suppose we’ll now get hectored for corrupting the thread.

John

I suspect that they are the same engines but one has a Townsend ring and the other doesn’t. Making a four-blade prop by placing two two-blade props together isn’t that uncommon in this period. It did mean that a damaged blade could be more easily be replaced without having to carry lots of spare (and awkwardly sized) 4-bladers around.

Interesting pic. I think the chap in front with his back to us and his hands in his pocket is saying to the other “So far so good – the passengers haven’t noticed something’s missing. Now if it clears the trees at the end of the paddock we’re home and hosed“

Now does anyone know the details of the twin Fairey Reed props used on the Hector glider tugs?

I had a quick check of the AFEE glider tug reports in my collection. There were only ever two AFEE reports that cover the performance of the Hector ( AFEE T3 Hector Towing Hotspur and AFEE T10 Hector Towing two Hotspurs) The trials were done in October 42 (T3) and July-Aug 42 (T10). The chances are that it was the same Hector for both sets of trials but in neither case is the aircraft identified, although I have identified three Hectors that were at the AFEE, K9754, K8112 and K8103.
As far as this thread goes the reports only state the Hector propeller type as Watts-Wood Drawing No Z3040/2 so apart from the 2 suffix there is nothing new to add.

Cripes, I’ve never seen the likes of that before; two different props on either side of an aeroplane. However, it does appear that they may be different engines on either side, too so the aircraft could be doubling as an airborne test-bed. Note also the spare (or the original?) engine slung under the fuselage.

There were a couple of Napier Dagger engines in a scrap yard (long since closed) near to the High Chester Road, just above Neston here on Wirral many years ago. Goodness knows how they had got there but they may have come from either Sealand, Hooton Park or Speke. The first two being WW1 airfields, the latter opened mid-thirties, so therein could be a clue.

Anon.

This is what I mean about ‘piggy backed’ 4 blades, with narrow waists fitting into the same hub as a single fixed pitch blade. This is a Viastra of West Australian Airways, fitted with LH tractor Bristol Jupiters. In order to equalise thrust, depending on the pitch of the airscrew setups, one engine may have had to be run at a different RPM on this Viastra. A pathway between LH tractor Dagger engined Hectors straining to tow gliders are LH tractor Pegasus engined Swordfishes straining to lift torpedoes. Maybe piggy backed Swordfish experiments allowed the Hectors to be ‘salvage’ equipped with piggy back blades when Swordfish went to variable pitch. Viastra photo stolen from Geoff Goodalls excellent website.

John, mea culpa on the 8 hole Anson -Cheetah hub, a foolish mistake ! I can’t let go of the repurposed FR blades though ! Maybe a 10 hole FR hub from a LH tractor Bristol Pegasus…was a developmental Swordfish ever fitted with an experimental four fixed blade arrangement ? I can’t see how a single glider towing squadron with an obsolete aircraft could warrant something special in 1942. It had to be some inspired fitter casting around a stores depot, trying to make the Hectors cut more air while straining to carry gliders aloft. The closest analogy I can think of is Handley Page Heyford with single fixed blade upgrading to a piggy backed two blade arrangement to make a four blades. All within the same hub, albeit 8 hole and RH tractor. The Heyford props had thin bosses, much like the Fairey Reed arrangement.

There are some Daggers around, dug up and bruised : I think one in Ireland, one with the Napier heritage trust and Hendon, not bad for such a curious Halfordesque engineering expedition. Shuttleworth has a Rapier.

You learn something new every day! Thanks John! And to answer my own question, there seems to be one at Hendon.

The Sea Fox actually used a Napier Rapier, and no, apart from prototype and experimental use there were no other production uses.

John

Are there actually any complete Daggers anywhere? I can’t think of any other production types using the engine other than Herefords and Seafoxes both firmly extinct (Ok, apart from the tailboom of the RAFM Hampden)…

These numbers refer to the drawing numbers (DRG), specific to that prop’s characteristics and it’s use, so I suppose that Z is a Weybridge code. de Havillands more sensibly start with DH.

With reference to your suggestion of the Anson FR blades these would actually measure less than Four feet per blade making a diameter of approx 8 ft. However the Dagger normally had a ten bolt hub and the Cheetah an eight bolt hub.

John

Hector prop

Anneorac,
Another reference from a Flight ad, attached, to the prototype Hart-Hector prop, made in Weybridge, with the code Z1311/1, I think.
In your magic book of prop details, is there any engineering information such as airfoil type or any other dimensions…for either Z1311 or Z3040.
What do the numbers mean, if they do mean anything?
Are these a known known or an known unknown or an unknown unknown…

Not fussed about Dagger colour, I understand they were mostly oily black…and happy with a Dag or agger, chunks thereof. Most of it would have to be recast and remade anyway. It’s about the only thing holding back a flying Hector.

Thanks anneorac, great information. 10.9′ is similar to prop on Hawker Hind – Australian Demon for RR Kestrel, excepting it is RHT. Given engine HP and airframe, I wonder if the LHT is the same as a Kestrel RHT, in reverse.

Now what do you mean by twin FR props ? Do you mean two fixed pitch blades stuck together to make a four bladed affair, like a HP Heyford?
Given the setup of the FR props, in theory it might be possible to cross two blade elements on top of each other, and use the same hub, except one hub half spun 180 degrees…with a packing piece in the middle and longer connecting bolts….

Maybe LHT FR blades from Avro Anson 1 : 6 and a bit feet per blade x 2 = 13 feet versus 10.9′
It would have to be something cobbled up in 1940 out of bits laying around, to chop more air…

I don’t know about the prop in the picture but the production Hectors were fitted with a Watts Z.3040 prop with a diameter of 10.9’ and a pitch of 12.15’. Now does anyone know the details of the twin Fairey Reed props used on the Hector glider tugs?

Anne

So, who’s got a Dagger ?

What colour do you want? 🙂

Maybe the engine mounts are MB2……:eagerness:

Hang on, I’ll just take it out of my M.B.2!

Here are the Hector engine bearers, looking for a Napier Dagger. They almost look like later Griffon engine bearers. Also a photograph of the Hector prototype, K2434, basically a Hart airframe with new engine bearers and the upper plane with no sweep back. The amount of oil streaks on the under fairing is interesting. The Dagger was Left Hand Tractor, and on the prop hub I can read Watts Z13/0/1 for the prop drawing. The only ‘off the shelf’ LHT fixed pitch props at the time would have been for British high power radials – perhaps it was borrowed from an early Pegasus application. I have dimensions for fixed pitch LHT props for Jupiter powered Bulldog and Wapiti, but like Goldilocks and her porridge, one is too small and the other is too large. I would be grateful if anybody could provide any information for the Watts Z13 prop, which would make it ‘just right.’

The Hector is like the dog from the pound, that should be put down, but it grows on you. It would be interesting to hear one in flight. I do have a conrod from a Dagger, and it is a surprising thing, like the little man that said Welcome to Fantasy Island. It is very short. The thing would pump up and down like a mini poodle reaching up for a biscuit. When you look at the RPM gauge for a Hector it goes up to 5,000 RPM, which is a lot for the 1930’s. The combination of open exhausts and high RPM and a fixed pitch prop would be a very interesting sound indeed.

So, who’s got a Dagger ?