Reynard,s Garage York Airspeed

I can’t get too upset. We cannot, after all, save every building that at one time in history did something worthy of a small historical footnote. Airspeed was not a major player in the British aircraft industry. Most of its history did not take place in York. I rather agree that too little emphasis is generally placed on our engineering history, but I don’t see this example as a strong case for what would have been an expensive preservation effort, even without counting in the economic value to the city of redevelopment.

I fear that, in a capitalist society, ‘economic benefit’ almost always will prevail over ‘historic merit’ – at least, the further one goes down the scale of the latter. And on that scale, sadly Reynards Garage was, no doubt, in the lower echelon. Had it been the Royal Pavilion, Brighton, almost certainly the outcome would have been different. However to all but a knowledgeable few, Reynards Garage was just another tatty old twentieth century industrial building. Any public outcry at its demolition probably was not loud. Thus its loss was ‘the price of progress’. It wasn’t the first and, I fear, it won’t be the last.

I am not sure if an attempt to list it had been made before it was pulled down, as I say I doubt that it would have saved it anyway.

I am sure you are right about the process. There was a public inquiry regarding the Ordsall Chord and Network Rail presented an exhaustive report on a number of alternative routes, many other parties also presented arguments. Like any court the decision is based on the evidence put forward. Unfortunately the process does not, IMHO, put enough “value” on historical interest. I feel that, in general, insufficient “value” is placed on engineering artifacts.

Has an attempt been made to have Reynards Garage listed? It sounds as if it wouldn’t qualify on grounds of architectural merit but no doubt an argument could be advanced on the basis of historic merit.

As to planning, is it not the case that a planning application concerning a listed building would be called in by the Secretary of State for a decision and that it would be determined by a planning inspector, following a public inquiry, rather than being left in the hands of the planning committee of the local authority? I regret I can’t say as my knowledge of planning law and practice has become somewhat rusty.

EDIT: sorry, I’ve just re-read the initial post and now realise that the building has been pulled down, which makes otiose my point regarding listing! However the question might usefully be posed in the imperfect tense, namely was any attempt made to have the building listed.

Reynard’s Garage is not listed but when the tick box system is used historic significance of even Grade 1 buildings cannot tick enough when set against other considerations.

The Ordsall Chord is another example where historic consideration of Grade 1 listed structures was swamped by financial benefit and it is proposed to destroy some listed structures.

As ever it seems to be one rule for us and another for them. If you own a listed building the council will exercise tight control to preserve the building. When it come to them they do what they like.

Yes I agree I could have put it better!!

The Orsdall Chord is an example where historic consideration of even a Grade 1……

It was a reference to the stated (in one of the articles) decision making process which took place regarding the garage. There is standard set of evaluations to be made regarding a project. These in part consist of public need, visual amenity, historical interest, cost ete etc each section is graded by levels. The scores are then added up and a decision made based on the scoring. (this is a very crude explanation and may not be exactly technically right but is the basic principle.) The controversial Ordsall Chord is a very good example where it has been decided that it is acceptable to pull down Grade 1 listed structures and pass an ultra modern bridge over the Grade 1 listed Stevenson’s bridge at the end of the first public railway in the world and which gives immediate access to the only existing first terminal station in the world. There is an alternative but it is more expensive and would cut across a proposed multi million pound development. The interesting thing is they dug out and restored a canal that bisected this large plot of derelict land. The site has been proposed for various projects all of which failed. When Railtrack first produced reports on routes for the Ordsall Chord they DID NOT properly consider this land as at that time HS2 were showing an interest in it. This is now the basis for a court case on the basis that they did not return to fully consider this option before the land was bought by the developer. Railtrack could have bought the land then and the compensation issues with the developer, that now supposedly price this option out, would not have existed.

Basically the same process was carried out with the garage but there is little chance that a “building of interest” is ever going to compete on points with a multi million pound development and all the sugar coating that may, or may not, allegedly, go on in such matters generically. I mean who has ever heard of Airspeed, Nevil Norway (or even Shute for that matter) or Sir Alan.

Recent quotes from people in control leave us in no doubt that they are making informed decisions!

York Council Leader said “The concept is great. But that’s not the right location.” Er I would have said it was in exactly the right location, the original location, just inconvenient for the money makers.

Sally MacDonald, new director of MOSI, basically brought in to take the £5M bribe from Network Rail to drop the museums previous objection to the route.

“…..but most of the planes (many Avros) are on loan from the RAF museum and aren’t really part of our (Manchester’s) story.”

How right, what in the world has Manchester got to do with aircraft or the Shackleton.

“This is important,” says Macdonald. “We’ve done some research and found that 10% of guests are families with children under five years and we have almost nothing for them. That has to change.”

I wonder what the other 90% come to see.

“We’re talking with Network Rail about using a patch of scrubland at the west of the site as a landscaped area and this will, with the changes in the 1830 warehouse, encourage people to enjoy the whole museum.”

Nothing like a bit of landscaping to increase visitor numbers so who needs visiting live steam engines?

With museum directors thinking like this and spending vast amounts of money on creating structures like IWM North and the inside of Lambeth there seems to be little hope.

Also one of the two surviving SRN4s is probably going to be scrapped to make way for a public space!!!! Surely an SRN4 should be at Wroughton. They moved a complete Fleet Street press there so what is the problem here, make the developer pay.

It is just a shame that the were wasn’t a colony of newts or bats in the garage.:D:D:D

Reynard’s Garage is not listed

If you own a listed building the council will exercise tight control to preserve the building. When it come to them they do what they like.

I’m in some difficulty reconciling these two statements.

To be fair the building was a bit, er, knackered. Assembling and restoring it would be a huge expense the museum could do without I suspect.
in addition it’s not like YAM is blessed with acres of space…

York Council are completely clueless on their own heritage if its anything later than Viking. (I live in York)…. Which is odd as it is a fine City full of History that they want the tourists to come and see.

We were the main Chocolate producing City for hundreds of years but all that is left is Kit-Kats produced by Nestle, and a small privately run Chocolate story museum.
We had Clifton aerodrome, where once the mighty Halifax roared and most were scrapped, but all that is left is a shopping centre and and a small insgnificant road called “Halifax Way”.
No4 Group Bomber Command was based in York and much of No6 Group spent time in York, but the Council seems to want to forget that Yorkshire too was bomber country. Just a small plaque in Heslington Hall reminds us of those days.

I knew from day one that the old Airspeed factory was in too prime a Hotel or City Centre flats location to survive the Council!