Old ARoutes

Left the UK (from London Stansted, I’ve read elsewhere) in late October 1964, aged 9, on a British Eagle Britannia. Destination Singapore (RAF Changi) via Istanbul and Bombay. Pretty sure we landed at Changi, not Paya Lebar Airport.

Departed Singapore from Paya Lebar Airport, in April 1967, again on a British Eagle Britannia, this time via Colombo and Kuwait. (Transit stop switched to Kuwait owing to a sandstorm in Bahrain.) Touched down at Heathrow.

I recall seeing, from the gharry taking us from Opera Estate to Changi Junior School, British Eagle Britannias parked on RAF Changi’s Western Dispersal. This photo [http://www.singas.co.uk/changi/changi01.JPG] shows Changi Road cutting through the airfield, Western Dispersal to the right, a taxiway to the left. The road was barrier-controlled, given the occasional aircraft movement.

I also remember noticing that the Britannias were named; Luxembourg is one I clearly recall, and possibly Edinburgh too. Perhaps they were named after British Eagle’s European destinations (route map at http://www.britisheagle.net/Routes-Maps-BE-1964.html).

Hi Stamrish :  My father was in the RAF and we , as a family of four, were posted to Malaya in 1959. I was 6yrs old. He was  originally posted to Singapore but on arrival we were sent to Penang. (I remember the painted white letter addresses on the black wooden packing boxes) There was quite a bit of turbulence en route and the lady in front of us was sick for a long time. (The things a child remembers!)  I thought (we as a family) travelled from Gatwick – (which was brand new but still having some building works going on) in a Brittania via Istanbul  to Karachi, and Bombay (where it was very hot, middle of the night and flying ants everywhere) then on to Singapore. We flew at 20,000 ft and looked out of the window at Everest and wondered if we would get above it (we were miles away of course). It took approx 24 hours.  On return in 1962 we landed at Stansted  which was very basic shed at the end of the runway and we were given “dishwater tea”  !  It was definitely a Brittania – mentioned many times over the years by my parents.

Hello Stamrish, if you are interested to know more about British Eagle then take a look at the website britisheagle.net It was a fantastic airline. We operated mainly out of Heathrow but on occasions from Lyneham for trooping flights.
Red Eagle Eagle Group of Companies Archivist

Trooping Flights by British united and Eagle Airways

Must say, you learn something new every day. I can’t find any reference to RAF Brits operating via London. In 1966 one would have thought it would have been Lyneham. ‘The Whispering Giant in Uniform’ makes no mention of Heathrow. Tentatively, and with due respect to the memory of someone who ‘was there’, I do still think British Eagle if the destination was London. Can anyone enlighten?

The RAF did not land at London Heathrow because they did not have a Handling agent to carry out all the services required to service and turn the aircraft round for a departure. If it was U/S then a team from Lyneham would have to and service it before it could depart.
I was posted to Australia and departed from Gatwick in a Britannia from British United with the seats facing rear as they did in RAF Transport Aircraft The journey to Singapore was quite an opener as apart from me an RAF J/T They were part of a replacement crew for one of the RN Ships at Singapore The flight time was 23hr 10 min On I went to Australia by Qantas Boeing 707 very nice.
My Return from Australia in 1965 was from Adelaide to Sydney by Viscount Sydney to Singapore Boeing 707 and by Britannia from British Eagle Bombay and Istanbul. arriving at Heathrow

1968 Saw me and my family of to Singapore by the VC10 of 10 Squadron XV103 rearward facing seats from RAF Brize Norton to RAF Muharraq then via RAF Gan then on to RAF Changi. Coming back via RAF Gan then RAF Akrotiri Landing at RAF Brize Norton.

The only time I can remember is when the Queen was going overseas by VC10 and I would have thought that a team was sent to carry all necessary servicing’s etc
Trenchard Brat

stamrish

Thanks for above – I fully understand what you say.

This topic has certainly rekindled some long forgotten memories for me on the logistics of getting people around some of the remotest outposts of the old Empire.

One other aspect of ‘trooper travel’, not previously mentioned, was the risk that on RAF aircraft individuals could be ‘off- loaded’ with no prior notice if someone else with a greater need for the seat suddenly turned up. My first experience of this was in Aden in 1967 when I was on night duty in RAF Khormaksar’s Station Headquarters.

Sometime after midnight on a very hot Aden night a phone call from the comcen advised me that a priority signal was en-route. The call was almost drowned out by an RAF VC10 trooper from Singapore that had just been refuelled and was about to proceed to the runway to continue its flight to RAF Brize Norton. The signal duly arrived with a sad message that the father of one of our young airmen was seriously ill in north east England and was not expected to survive for more than 24 hours. I quickly advised the Duty Officer who gave immediate approval for the airman to be returned to the UK.

By this time the VC10 was nearing the end of the runway for take-off but a quick telephone call to ATC saw the aircraft turn around and head back to the terminal.

After ascertaining where the young man lived I went to his barrack block and woke him up with the dreadful news of his dad, and asked him to quickly pack a bag as there was an aircraft waiting for him. I then returned to SHQ to complete the necessary paperwork whilst he was taken to the terminal where the Duty Officer had already made arrangements to off-load one of the VC10 passengers. From memory I think it was an RAF Wing Commander. I then watched as the aircraft flew up into the dark arabian night less than an hour after its planned departure.

Some days’ later I was shown a signal from Brize Norton stating that the VC10 had arrived on schedule and the young man was quickly transferred to another aircraft and flown directly to Newcastle where he was able to be with his family at the hospital before his father’s passing.

As a young airman myself (just turned 20) I was really touched by this very sad event but also grateful that the RAF managed to get him home so quickly. I’m sure that the off-loaded Wing Commander would have fully understood the reasoning for his sudden exit from the aircraft.

Fortunately it happened to me only once but that’s another story!

Regards…..Paul

Hi Paul,

Yeah not too sure how all this works. I wasn’t sure what the best way was to comment to you so I just replied with quote. I suppose hitting the reply to thread would have been the correct method. But all good. I wasn’t too sure if the thread was going to turn into a slanging match. 🙂 As for the BAC-111, I’m pretty sure that’s what I went in but possibly BAOC. But it could have been BUA. Haha, first world issues eh!

Re stamrish’s above post

Not sure if you meant to quote my post 9 in your above post as it was written in reply to Pen Pusher’s post 8. Anyway, it doesn’t matter as it’s also relevant to your 1960’s search for flight details.

Reading your comments, it is quite sad to think that the famous old British Eagle airline that was so well known at Heathrow, and around the world, is no longer remembered in all quarters. To many of my generation the airlines unmistakeable colour scheme really enhanced the elegant lines of the Bristol Britannia aircraft.

With regard to BUA, another famous old British airline, I also flew on one of their trooper VC10’s to Aden via Bahrain which was much quicker of course than the Britannia troopers, although at that particular time I was in no real hurry to get to that awful place! Like you I also went to Germany on a trooper, this time on a British Caledonian BAC 111 with the same under rear fuselage entrance that you remember. So many troopers in those days!

Best of luck in your continuing quest. Regards….Paul

Hi Paul, you did give me some info on the other site not so long a go. I had a look on the PPRu site, which did have a lot of info. However, just when you think something useful turns up some one puts a spanner in the works and it’s back to the beginning. A lot have mentioned British Eagle but I have never heard of them or seem to recall seeing their colours on the AC. Some of the routes and stop offs are pretty close as well but as I was only almost 3 on the way out and 6 on the return trip things didn’t register as well as they should have. I do believe the departure point was Stanstead. and stop offs were Rome Kuwait and Bombay but not necessarily all in the same direction. What would be ideal is to find someone else that did the same trip. However, needle in a haystack springs to mind. I even tried the Army historical branch but they didn’t really seem to think that the info I required would be kept on record. I suppose.

BUA does spring to mind but I also did a flight to Germany in the 60s so the BUA flight could have been that one. I also remember going on to the Aircraft up through the centre of the rear. Similar to the Tridents. (I think)

Its fascinating that despite the above facts you are still convinced that your Far East tour involved RAF Britannia’s from and to LAP/ Heathrow. It would be very interesting to know more about these unusual flights especially as they took RAF aircraft away from their usual routes – could they have been VIP or aeromedical flights?

As you may or may not know, RAF Lyneham went through a huge rebuilding programme in the late 50’s and early 60’s to become the UK’s Air Trooping Centre, with a new Terminal and Hotel for the thousands of passengers passing through each year. Brand new modern facilities were also constructed for the RAF staff. To use Heathrow with the added London expenses of landing, customs, and passenger handling fees on a regular basis would have made no sense at all.

I also note that you remember the aircraft having a defective nose-wheel before landing which resulted in you flying around in circles for a while. Given these circumstances I would have thought that the RAF captain might have elected for a landing at Lyneham, a short flying distance away, where the aircraft’s regular engineers were based, instead of relying on expensive British Eagle or BOAC engineers at Heathrow to have a look at the problem. A British Eagle captain on the other hand would definitely want to land amongst his own engineers at Heathrow. Just a thought!

The RAF routes to the Far East were purposely set-up (as previously described) to enable RAF aircraft to hop from one RAF overseas base to another thereby avoiding those countries unsympathetic to the British cause. Unlike civilian airlines, the RAF, being a military organisation, would also have needed to have the necessary diplomatic clearances to overfly foreign countries. An admin nightmare!

As I mentioned recently on another site, as well as the RAF and British Eagle operating troopers to Singapore, British United Airways also flew troopers with Britannias from the beginning of the 1960’s. Their route to Singapore (Paya Lebar) included stops both ways at Istanbul and Bombay. Their UK departure and arrival airfield was Stansted now known as LONDON Stansted. Could this be the answer?

Finally, I fully understand that you have complete faith in your father’s version of events, but I must add that just because someone was in the RAF it does not always mean that they know much about aeroplanes. A few of my RAF acquaintances would freely admit not knowing a Varsity from a Vulcan, they only joined after seeing the recruiting adverts inviting young men to play lots of sport and see the world. The last thing they were interested in was noisy smelly aeroplanes!

Anyway, interesting stuff and a nice reminder of some good old days’.

Regards….Paul

Its fascinating that despite the above facts you are still convinced that your Far East tour involved RAF Britannia’s from and to LAP/ Heathrow. It would be very interesting to know more about these unusual flights especially as they took RAF aircraft away from their usual routes – could they have been VIP or aeromedical flights?

As you may or may not know, RAF Lyneham went through a huge rebuilding programme in the late 50’s and early 60’s to become the UK’s Air Trooping Centre, with a new Terminal and Hotel for the thousands of passengers passing through each year. Brand new modern facilities were also constructed for the RAF staff. To use Heathrow with the added London expenses of landing, customs, and passenger handling fees on a regular basis would have made no sense at all.

I also note that you remember the aircraft having a defective nose-wheel before landing which resulted in you flying around in circles for a while. Given these circumstances I would have thought that the RAF captain might have elected for a landing at Lyneham, a short flying distance away, where the aircraft’s regular engineers were based, instead of relying on expensive British Eagle or BOAC engineers at Heathrow to have a look at the problem. A British Eagle captain on the other hand would definitely want to land amongst his own engineers at Heathrow. Just a thought!

The RAF routes to the Far East were purposely set-up (as previously described) to enable RAF aircraft to hop from one RAF overseas base to another thereby avoiding those countries unsympathetic to the British cause. Unlike civilian airlines, the RAF, being a military organisation, would also have needed to have the necessary diplomatic clearances to overfly foreign countries. An admin nightmare!

As I mentioned recently on another site, as well as the RAF and British Eagle operating troopers to Singapore, British United Airways also flew troopers with Britannias from the beginning of the 1960’s. Their route to Singapore (Paya Lebar) included stops both ways at Istanbul and Bombay. Their UK departure and arrival airfield was Stansted now known as LONDON Stansted. Could this be the answer?

Finally, I fully understand that you have complete faith in your father’s version of events, but I must add that just because someone was in the RAF it does not always mean that they know much about aeroplanes. A few of my RAF acquaintances would freely admit not knowing a Varsity from a Vulcan, they only joined after seeing the recruiting adverts inviting young men to play lots of sport and see the world. The last thing they were interested in was noisy smelly aeroplanes!

Anyway, interesting stuff and a nice reminder of some good old days’.

Regards….Paul

Well being in the RAF I’m sure my dad would know the difference between RAF Lyneham and London Airport and the difference between an RAF and a civilian operated Britannia.

Brian

Re Pen Pusher’s above post

It didn’t matter what service you were in to fly on RAF or civilian trooping aircraft, they catered for all servicemen and their families as well as those employed by other government departments or agencies. I can recall two occasions in the 1960’s when I was the only RAF passenger on fully loaded RAF trooper Britannias from RAF Lyneham. As I’ve already mentioned on another thread, apart from operating flights on many routes world-wide, a Lyneham Britannia known as the ‘Changi Slip’ left the Wiltshire base every day bound for Singapore stopping for fuel at RAF El Adem in Libya, RAF Khormaksar in Aden and RAF Gan in the Maldives. It stopped at the same places on the way home. RAF Lyneham, of course, was the hub for all RAF Britannia air trooping flights from the 1950’s and throughout the 1960’s before the aircraft moved to RAF Brize Norton in 1970.

Heathrow was the hub for British Eagle Britannia troopers in the 1960’s and again from personal experience I can recall being a passenger on one coming in from the Middle East in 1967 having stopped for fuel at Bahrain and Istanbul. Being stationed near Heathrow during the 1960’s the only RAF aircraft that occasionally appeared in the skies were those engaged on VIP flights.

Have just realised I’m older than I think!! Regards…..Paul

A bit of Googling and Eagle received their first Britannia 1960 for the London-Nassau route and by 1962 they had two Britannia’s on their books and Eight by 1964.

We left London airport New Year’s Eve 1959 so can’t have been with Eagle Airways. My dad was RAF so can’t imagine flying on an Army trooping transport :D.

Brian

Must say, you learn something new every day. I can’t find any reference to RAF Brits operating via London. In 1966 one would have thought it would have been Lyneham. ‘The Whispering Giant in Uniform’ makes no mention of Heathrow. Tentatively, and with due respect to the memory of someone who ‘was there’, I do still think British Eagle if the destination was London. Can anyone enlighten?

London airport was renamed Heathrow in 1966. According to my dad, we flew RAF there and back from London airport.

Brian

Hmm…’tis an awful long time ago and I was very young. Flew out in 1964 on a British Eagle ( I think), Britannia stopping at Istanbul and Bombay. The flight did indeed take 24hrs. We came back in 1966, this time definitely aboard a British Eagle Brit, via Colombo and Ankara. Landed at Heathrow, (not sure if an RAF aircraft would have gone to London……are you sure it was RAF?).
The latter flight is etched in my memory because, at Colombo, I saw my first VC10 , watching the perfect demonstration of power and noise when it took off. And also, Meteor Junior succeeded in getting the contents of one of those condiment sachets of pepper in his eye when being over exuberant in the opening thereof. Stewardess administered cold water washes and plastered me up with an eye patch which I wore with pride for the rest of the trip.
We arrived in early April and, OMG it was cold!

Flew to Singapore in 1959 returned to the UK late 1962 in time for that nice winter of 1963 :D. Don’t remember much about the flight out as I was about 5 years old but coming back, can’t remember departure location but we were in an RAF Britannia and stopped off at Bombay and Ankara and after 24 hours touched down at London Airport after circling for a while as they hand cranked down the nose wheel.

Brian