Reading the thread about a recent flight in a Spitfire in NZ, I did a search on pilot Liz Needham.
Among other aircraft she flies, is her own P-40. Which apparently fires blank ammunition during
air displays.
Are any of our UK warbirds capable of doing this, or would they be allowed to ?
By: ErrolC - 15th February 2016 at 22:42
Sand, not flour 😉
Bombs Gone! Anson runs in by Errol Cavit, on Flickr
Slot ‘er in! by Errol Cavit, on Flickr
By: AlanR - 15th February 2016 at 22:33
I expect we are still some way off from seeing flour bombs being dropped by the Blenheim ? 🙂
By: Duggy - 15th February 2016 at 19:43
Better still paintball:applause:
By: Newforest - 15th February 2016 at 19:34
No one has mentioned ‘Gray Eagles’ yet?!
That was true wasn’t it or maybe not. 😀
By: J Boyle - 15th February 2016 at 19:18
You do realize that owning an operable 50 cal requires some sort of license? No, not anyone can mount one on an airplane.
Also, there would be the question of security. I’m sure they’re valuable.
At any rate, I’m sure 99.9% of American warbirds don’t have operable guns. And I can’t imagine why anyone would want one on an aircraft.
By: JohnTerrell - 15th February 2016 at 19:11
The Fagen Fighters WWII Museum went to great lengths, working with ATF/government officials (and a lot of paperwork) in 2011, to have six operating .50-cal Browning MG’s fitted to the P-51D “Twilight Tear” (the original), and all just to be fired on the ground (contrary to what used to be posted around forums and on Facebook, this was a one-time deal, and the aircraft has never been flown with operational .50’s). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niJ82YCiuYU
Many of the extremely authentic warbirds flying today (for instance Mustangs) have working gun solenoids wired to the trigger, so when you pull the trigger from the cockpit you can hear the solenoids clicking away, but the guns themselves are of course non-firing/replicas.
By: JohnTerrell - 15th February 2016 at 19:05
There are several B17’s that fire blanks too, there was a course a year or so back where you simulated a mission, that included live firing a .50 on a range then firing blanks in flight.
What you’re referring to is “Bomber Camp”, which is a course that is setup once every year through the combined efforts of the Collings Foundation (B-17 “Nine-O-Nine” and B-24 “Witchraft”) and the Stockton Field Aviation Museum. In past years, only one bomber or the other has been chosen to be used for the 2-day course, but this year both aircraft will take part: http://www.collingsfoundation.org/event/2016-bomber-camp/
“Bomber Camp” videos:
Firing blanks out of the waist-gunner position on the B-17 “Nine-O-Nine”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcb5PETou9g
Dropping bombs from the B-17 “Nine-O-Nine”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWVa92Gstg
Operating the ball-turret on the B-24 “Witchcraft”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcPTnsAP9wU
Dropping bombs and firing blanks on the B-24 “Witchcraft”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ueUJPqWWbY
Firing blanks out of the waist-gunner position on the B-24 “Witchcraft”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb5robvS9Xw
By: AlanR - 15th February 2016 at 18:57
Thanks for the replies !
By: ErrolC - 15th February 2016 at 18:19
I suspect the risk of FOD from the spent cases littering an airfield would be high on the list of reasons why it’s not feasible…
When this came up on WONZ a while back, the high likelihood of the casings falling into rabbit holes was bought up!
The terrain around Wanaka is very open, and it is single runway (well, plus parallel grass). This isn’t done at other NZ shows – at Omaka (three runways) there would be very irate vineyard owners!
By: Sage the Owl - 15th February 2016 at 17:38
I remember being at the Great Warbirds airshow just after filming had wrapped on Memphis Belle, “Sally B” did a flypast firing her waist guns with blanks not used during filming, doubt that would be allowed today though.
By: TonyT - 15th February 2016 at 17:19
ut in the meantime, can someone explain to me why there’s any need for an ex-combat aircraft to have guns, whether live or de-activated, installed, even if only for the purpose of firing blanks.
It is not that simple, sometimes you have to factor in the Centre of Gravity, the RAF when it first bought the Typhoon was going to bin the gun..( stupid Idea ) to save money. They suddenly found out that to ditch the gun and fit ballast, it was going to cost more for Waste of Space ( BAe) to design and fit a ballast weight than it would have cost to simply fit the gun…. so the gun went in as a ballast weight and I believe later they added the back up support systems to maintain and use it.
It’s one reason the F-16 has either the wingtip missiles or pods fitted too.
By: TonyT - 15th February 2016 at 17:13
I seem to remember that some of the Allen collection can fire live rounds, wasn’t there something about the Hurricane having live weapons in it? There are several B17’s that fire blanks too, there was a course a year or so back where you simulated a mission, that included live firing a .50 on a range then firing blanks in flight.
By: avion ancien - 15th February 2016 at 16:11
Yes, that’s a fair point. And on reflection, I accept that my remark was general whereas the debate here is specific. In consequence, I’ll delete my earlier post. But in the meantime, can someone explain to me why there’s any need for an ex-combat aircraft to have guns, whether live or de-activated, installed, even if only for the purpose of firing blanks. Does it enhance a display of the aeroplane’s flying capabilities? If not, is it a matter of total historical accuracy? And if so, is it not the case that a totally historically accurate ex-combat aircraft probably would not be allowed to fly today in private ownership and is more likely to be a static exhibit in a museum?
By: Arabella-Cox - 15th February 2016 at 15:11
It seems that some people would like the EU gun laws to mirror those in the USA. Isn’t the example of the USA the best possible reason for endorsing the gun legislation that there is in the EU?
US warbird people are NOT the problem here… and when was the last time a warbird was used for terrorism in the US?
By: Archer - 15th February 2016 at 14:45
Most likely gas operated replicas – thus no shells required.
Have a look at this video:
By: AlanR - 15th February 2016 at 14:13
Lets keep to the subject of guns in warbirds 🙂
By: Bunsen Honeydew - 15th February 2016 at 13:17
The chances anyway soon if the EU has it’s way, owning even a replica of a gun will not be permitted, live machine guns like Brownings, you would need a section 5 firearms certificate, which is a very difficult thing to have.
The EU is going to have its way, the directive has been issued. Ultimately, even a broom handle sticking out of a turret will be illegal. It’s being done in the interests of preventing terrorism but some of the requirements defy the laws of physics and some will actually make it easier to smuggle working firearms into the country. Deactivated firearms, including those in preserved aircraft, airworthy and non airworthy will have to be handed in without compensation. To me it looks like part of an attack on military heritage.
The EU have said that museums run by public bodies won’t be affected but they are already allowed Firearms Certificates for everything including section 5. Question is, are Lambeth, Duxford and Hendon run by public bodies? Is a trust a public body?
Suggest you look at the HMVF and similar forums.
If enough people got off their bums and wrote to MPs and MEPs this might be stopped or amended to work here but I can’t see people doing that.
By: Junk Collector - 15th February 2016 at 13:11
The chances anyway soon if the EU has it’s way, owning even a replica of a gun will not be permitted, live machine guns like Brownings, you would need a section 5 firearms certificate, which is a very difficult thing to have.
By: oz rb fan - 15th February 2016 at 12:59
not gas operated replica’s……real live 50’s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVOfjU1A-mE
if you look close you can see the shells falling.
By: Arabella-Cox - 15th February 2016 at 12:56
Most likely gas operated replicas – thus no shells required.
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February 15, 2016 at 11:57 am