XH558 and G-VLCN Registered trade marks

Whether it is 558 or some other charity, the first question you should ask if considering donating is; what percentage of every pound donated is taken for administration and salaries and is this percentage likely to remain fixed ?

Some of the answers will cause painful surprise.

Look at the prices charged by Duxford,the “living airworthy aircraft” don’t even belong to them and are not guaranteed to be there .

And worth every penny it is too.

Once again for all the whining whingers –DON’T CONTRIBUTE ,no one is forcing you :apologetic:.For those who want to contribute and would like to see /hear a living airframe instead of something covered in dust in a dark museum,well done and Thank you.
Look at the other thread on here complaining about Hendon— it’s free but people still moan about it.Lets hope they don’t start to charge.
Look at the prices charged by Duxford,the “living airworthy aircraft” don’t even belong to them and are not guaranteed to be there .

XH558 was bought by David Walton, and was owned by him until the restoration when ownership was transferred to the Trust. It wasn’t “supposed to be ……

…..from some, you are left wondering if we deserve to have any heritage aeroplanes to see at all.

Quite so Plough, as always there are a lot of armchair critics, with opinions they wish to share, and how they know how to run and manage things best, and there are those who actively get involved in conservation (voluntarily) and contribute real resource to the aircraft preservation scene.

I can only imagine the CAA’s face if the proposal to operate the Vulcan was presented with a volunteer/lowly paid non accountable support organisation….

Or alternatively you let the people with the skills you need go off and earn similar or larger salaries elsewhere. To run a funding campaign of the length and scale of VTTS needs well educated experienced people. It would have been run as a business and paying business salaries.

Consider any other similar sized public funded charity you’ve ever heard off and have a look at the salaries being earned by board members. It will be similar.

The Vulcan was never supposed to be transferred to a profit making company, It was supposed to be completely relinquished by VTTS to a museum..

XH558 was bought by David Walton, and was owned by him until the restoration when ownership was transferred to the Trust. It wasn’t “supposed to be relinquished…”, it was a proposal within the submission to HLF that it would go to a museum when flying finished, from where it would continue the ongoing commitment that was a condition of the HLF grant – that it would continue to be used to inspire and educate. We all know that they named Duxford without properly consulting them, and they didn’t want to take it on, but kindly tell which aircraft museum wanted to take over responsibility for XH558 and satisfy the commitmment to inspire and educate. We heard lots from the usual wide open mouths on various forums about where it should have gone instead of Finningley, but interestingly, I don’t remember a great deal of noise from the places mentioned with proposals for accommodation and facilities to satisfy the ongoing requirement. Can you enlighten us as to which museum did actually want it, and were prepared to carry out the commitment?

I`m sure 558 will be a great tool in teaching the next generation of aircraft engineers all about composite structures and flyby wire systems…

Another one spouting off without being conversant with the facts. XH558 isn’t intended to be a training tool for future engineers on modern aeroplanes. The most significant part of the proposed academy set up is to train engineers to work on heritage aircraft.

But then some comments on here make you wonder why some people are aircraft enthusiasts.

Quite so, and especially with underlying tone of nastiness from some, you are left wondering if we deserve to have any heritage aeroplanes to see at all.

Am i reading those accounts right that around 1/4 of the donations received were spent on Salaries! Fair enough run the whole project as a business and pay what you want in salaries. But when that business model relies so heavily on public donations it does not sit right with me at all, especially when the donation drives are centered around keeping XH558 Flying where in reality it also goes to funding what I would deem excessive salaries.

Profit making company–if it’s what it takes to keep it alive you have to make a profit in the good times to get through the bad times.But then some comments on here make you wonder why some people are aircraft enthusiasts.
“So much for being retired to a museum” ,like all the other dead ,and decaying Vulcans in museums.If you want to see a living breathing airframe then you need money.God help anyone if they complained about Spitfires and threatened to turn them into metal saucepans etc.

http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends48/0001101948_AC_20141031_E_C.pdf

Cant be many “other” living breathing static aircraft “blowing” £124K per year on hangarage.. as for living outside etc, the VC10 did its entire life, only going indoors for majors etc, as indeed was the case with the Vulcan in service..

http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/DocumentList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1101948&SubsidiaryNumber=0&DocType=AccountList

The cash cow they keep on milking…..

I wonder if this will change?

The number of employees whose annual remuneration was £60,000 or more were:
£70,000 to £60, 000
2014
Number
1
2013
Number
1
Robert Pleming is the only member of staff who earned more than £60,000 He resigned as a Trustee on 17
November 2009, and no other Trustee (or any persons connected with them) received any remuneration in
the current or prior year.
None of the Trustees were reimbursed expenses in the current or prior year.

I Don’t see many people at Brunty getting paid that much or indeed getting paid period, looking after the runners.

It was capable of firing up and moving at Bruntingthorpe – that didn’t stop it having some serious corrosion that very nearly put paid to flying again. We need to grasp that taxying and ground running aircraft whilst good for systems doesn’t do a massive amount for protection from the elements.

Are the RAFM Vulcans at Cosford and Hendon ‘dead and decaying’ ?

Compared to one that is capable of firing up it’s engines and moving –yes.

Nice analogy Mike 😀 It remains to be seen if they are successful in making up the inevitable loss in donations through government funding as they go down this education route. I`m sure 558 will be a great tool in teaching the next generation of aircraft engineers all about composite structures and flyby wire systems…

Lets not forget VULCAN To The Sky is now looking to work with other aircraft types and groups. Maybe they did not do it for the love and appreciation of the Vulcan all along.

Anyway, who am I to judge. I wish them all the luck in the world with their metal Mosquito.

The Vulcan was never supposed to be transferred to a profit making company..

That’s okay then, because the chance of it ever turning a profit is somewhat less than that of Jose Mourinho sending Roman Abramovich a Chritmas Card.

The Vulcan was never supposed to be transferred to a profit making company, It was supposed to be completely relinquished by VTTS to a museum. That Museum was supposed to be Duxford, though we all know that was just bunk for HLF. There have been offers from museums / groups with far more frequent access to a runway and locations which are much more visitor friendly.
I live less than half an hour away from DSA so my wish for it not to be left there was always for the good of the aircraft rather than a selfish want to have it nearby. I share the concerns of many, that the Vulcan is not safe there, though I think the threat is from the success of the airport rather than the failure many believe.
For what its worth I think (we all have one etc,) The right thing would be for XH558 to return to David Walton with support from the club and nothing to do with VTTS, I would like it to go to Elvington and the best location for its continued preservation would be Scampton.

Are the RAFM Vulcans at Cosford and Hendon ‘dead and decaying’ ?

Profit making company–if it’s what it takes to keep it alive you have to make a profit in the good times to get through the bad times.But then some comments on here make you wonder why some people are aircraft enthusiasts.
“So much for being retired to a museum” ,like all the other dead ,and decaying Vulcans in museums.If you want to see a living breathing airframe then you need money.
God help anyone if they complained about Spitfires and threatened to turn them into metal saucepans etc.

What bothers me most is, they have some how managed to transfer ownership of this publicly funded aircraft to a profit making company. Its their aircraft now, never mind the trade mark ! So much for being retired to a museum. I love that aeroplane, I have followed it most of my life but some times I think I would rather see it in a million pieces than them make another penny out of it.

Looking at house prices projected to double in ten years I would be suprised if the airport doesn’t become houses !

I’m looking forward to buying limited edition XH558 aluminium saucepans and G-VLCN razorblades. When does scrapping commence?

Unlikely to happen in your lifetime 😉

Talking of trademarks, I notice that the latest Corgi diecast catalogue features the P-51D Mustang (TM). I wonder who has registered it.

Boeing. It owns the legacy of North American and North American Rockwell aircraft. So now it’s responsible for support of the B-1B.

On model packages, we see all kinds of licensing stuff…Bell, Lockheed Martin….no different than Ferrari I guess (except that the military designation wasn’t done by the aircraft builder…and many times the firms were paid to design the aircraft by the government, so shouldn’t it own the designs?)

Rather famously, Chuck Yeager copyrighted the name and nose art of his Mustang. I understand that’s why Jack Roush changed the name of his to Bud Anderson’s ac.

Talking of trademarks, I notice that the latest Corgi diecast catalogue features the P-51D Mustang (TM). I wonder who has registered it.