Gents;
In a few days I’ll receive my (non-serviceable) Packard Dash 9 crankcase and front gear reduction case from a shop in the USA. My desire is to build a decent looking static display engine, as even a ground-runner now seems out of the question. The case will have all studs removed, as these are quite valuable, and were not part of the sales/purchase agreement. The only studs that will be supplied, are 8 of the long cylinder bank hold-down studs, so that I can slide two banks onto the engine.
I would like to look at this post as 3 questions, all based on hardware that is typically screwed into the crankcase. I assume that both Rolls-Royce and Packard hardware for most of the engine was Whitworth, with some exceptions, such as the American carburetor.
So here goes;
1. Does anyone know the type of studs screwed into the bottom face of the crankcase, to hold the oil pan (crankcase lower portion) in place? See picture #1. Could you specify a thread type for each end, such as BSW 15 TPI (or however it’s really termed). They quite conceivably have different threads at each end, as well.
2. How about the studs at the aft end of the crankcase, including the 2 upper long ones that help hold the wheelcase in place. Any knowledge of the thread type, for each end on those studs? See pictures #2 and 3.
3. Lastly, how about the studs or bolts that hold the front reduction gear casing to the front face of the crankcase? Most of them appear to be simple bolts and nuts that are slid into through-holes, especially on the upper half, but 4 studs in the “cheek” areas of the front face are studs screwed into the actual crankcase. I think the lowest 2 are bolts, with very square heads, slid into place from inside the crankcase. See pic #4.
And typically, these studs, one would assume, would have to be made of pretty amazing steel. Any idea what sort of alloy? I imagine they’d have to be the right balance between hard and ductile to hold some very heavy engine sections together. When you consider holding the entire weight of the wheelcase and supercharger onto the crankcase, I’m quite amazed at how few studs/bolts are used. Plus the issue of ongoing vibration. Those 2 long studs that hold the top of the wheelcase to the crankcase are really “spindly” looking to me.
I am considering simply making up a set of studs on a lathe, using Whitworth dies and taps to cut the threads, as these are still quite available.
I know I’m asking a lot, so I understand if this doesn’t get answered fully or immediately, but some people have been very helpful over the years, so thank you for any help you can offer.
Tom Kay, Ottawa.
By: DH82EH - 29th January 2015 at 11:49
Hey Tom
Something I have had success with, while using the “double nut” method, is to tap on your wrench with a hammer while trying to loosen the stud.
Place a load on the wrench and tap it in the desired direction.
Andy
By: Tom Kay - 29th January 2015 at 02:29
Thanks minimans. I have used the double nut method, but it would be good to find that tool, so I’ll search.
I just put another 300+ Merlin pics on my Flickr page. They range from good, small, rough, blurry, clear, duplicated, as I have just collected every picture I could find over the years. I’ll try to upload the rest at some point.
Tom.
By: minimans - 29th January 2015 at 02:13
And speaking of studs, the original subject of this thread, how does one safely remove a tight stud from a casting? I just used Vise-Grips to unscrew one from my cylinder head. It worked, but the teeth scratched the daylights out of the stud body. Is there a tool that clamps down well on smooth cylindrical objects, without slipping and gouging?
Tom.
There are special tools for removing studs without damage even more special one for wasted studs! but if there not overly tight you can use the double nut method. put two nuts on the stud and tighten one against the other then undo using the lower nut keeping the top nut tight against the lower
By: Tom Kay - 29th January 2015 at 01:34
And speaking of studs, the original subject of this thread, how does one safely remove a tight stud from a casting? I just used Vise-Grips to unscrew one from my cylinder head. It worked, but the teeth scratched the daylights out of the stud body. Is there a tool that clamps down well on smooth cylindrical objects, without slipping and gouging?
Tom.
By: DH82EH - 28th January 2015 at 00:57
Cool thread.
Thanks guys. You have some great shots on those flicker accounts.
I’ve been to Vintage wings a few times. It’s a great collection and some great folks.
Andy Scott
By: AlanR - 26th January 2015 at 22:57
Here’s the link: https://www.flickr.com/photos/130143587@N02/with/15747703303
Please let me know if it doesn’t work and I’ll keep working on Flickr. Tom.
Works fine on my Firefox Tom.
Lovely pictures, and as a non-techie type of person, I have nothing but admiration for the people who
designed and built these beautiful engines.
By: Tom Kay - 26th January 2015 at 22:47
Pete;
Something else I just figured out. Flickr behaves differently on Firefox than it does on Internet Explorer. In IE, I can easily find the page that gives all the picture size choices, but in Firefox it doesn’t show up. So as much as I like ANYTHING other than Microsoft products, that’s what I’ll use for digging up images on Flickr.
I also want to say that I have a supercharger that has one little bolt boss half-broken off it, and a scratched hole through the intake bum, as if it’s been dragged on a paved road for a mile. I might have looked at that and said “Woe is me, that will never run, or even look good.” But after looking at your site, especially the Mk XX rebuild, I think Noah’s Ark is re-buildable. I am blown away by the effort that you went to in putting together the wheelcase in particular, but lots of other parts. Unbelievable! Tons of welding. I guess once you weld, it’s a relatively straightforward task of grinding to imitate the original casting external shape.
So I will go ahead and upload everything I have on Merlins, although I’m not sure what to do with a few PDF files that I have. I suspect that you have not uploaded pics from all your rebuilds, so I’d like to ask you to at least consider doing that, time consuming though it is. From each new batch of pictures I learn so much.
As an example, I have a cylinder bank, but the transport liners are very firmly seated in the holes. I assume there are something like rubber O-ring seals that sit near the top and bottom of each liner to secure them into the cylinder skirt, and keep coolant in. I can’t see inside my aluminum casting, so when I looked at your pictures, I learned that at least some cylinder skirts have a large open window from one cylinder to the next. However, I think I’ve also seen pictures where there is an obvious partition between each cylinder, so I’m guessing one is an earlier design. I might yet try to press one liner out and learn more.
Well, c’est tout pour maintenant. Thanks again Pete. Hope I’m allowing you to get some work done. Tom.
By: MerlinPete - 26th January 2015 at 21:10
Thanks Tom, the photos are great.
I was going to say that you can save the photos, but you have found that out now! I have to say that Flickr is one of the least intuitive sites I know of, the way you upload photos and put them in albums is slightly odd, and the drag-and-drop function doesn`t often work properly. I do like the way the photos appear in the albums though, and the iPhone app is quite good too.
Look forward to seeing some more. (and posting some of mine).
Pete
By: Tom Kay - 26th January 2015 at 15:46
I obviously don’t have Flickr entirely figured out, because I was able to do some good things from my computer at work, but not at home. For example, I can view my uploaded pictures at the high resolution that I wanted at work. There was no window that said “View All Sizes” on my home computer.
Second, I was able to right click and download both my pics and your pics, Pete, so let’s assume this issue is solved. Now I will up load as much as I can. I may not sort all my Merlin pics into directories, but they should all be there soon.
Cheers, and hope somebody wants a few of these photos. Tom.
By: Tom Kay - 25th January 2015 at 23:37
OK, I’ve uploaded 88 photos to Flickr. This is what I shot on Saturday so it’s only a tiny fraction of what I have, but gotta start somewhere.
I’m really not happy about the resolution (max) size. I don’t know how to upload at maximum size, so these are pretty small and do not blow up well. Also, I tried right clicking and saving, and it won’t work. Not sure how to set that up so people can easily download them without doing a screen grab for each one.
Here’s the link: https://www.flickr.com/photos/130143587@N02/with/15747703303
Please let me know if it doesn’t work and I’ll keep working on Flickr. Tom.
By: Tom Kay - 25th January 2015 at 22:53
OK, NOW I could tear my hair out. I had no idea this resource existed ! AHHHHHH !!!!
That’s my way of saying nice pictures, Pete. I noticed it won’t allow right click and save. Is this a choice made by the person who uploads the files? I would be willing to make mine public, unless someone can think of a compelling reason why that’s not good.
I’ll try to wade through Flickr. Thanks Pete.
Tom.
By: MerlinPete - 25th January 2015 at 21:11
Hi Tom
Would love to see the photos.
I use Flickr. You get 2TB of storage free of charge.
Here`s a link to mine. I have a lot to upload yet, but will do so shortly. I have hundreds of photos of the rebuilds of about 20 Merlins we have done over the years.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/89759996@N04/sets/
There isn`t the facility to upload large files on this forum, but you can always post a link.
Pete
By: Tom Kay - 25th January 2015 at 18:19
Related: Any good upload place for Merlin Pics, high resolution?
I finally visited Vintage Wings in Gatineau Quebec yesterday, and had a good 3 hours. I’ve been meaning to do that for years. First thing you’re greeted by is 6 Merlins of various Mks, and the Mk XVI Spitfire. There’s also a Mk IX Spit, 2 hurricanes, Lysander, Corsair, P-51, Chipmunk, F-86 Saber. Quite the place.
I took several close-up, high-res pics of the Merlins, and would like to share if anyone sees a value in doing this. I know I could have benefited from close up pics, especially of a good cutaway engine.
Is there a proper upload place on this forum for doing that? Each pic is about 6 megs. I have around 50 from yesterday, not to mention hundreds from over the years.
Tom.
By: richw_82 - 19th January 2015 at 14:07
The York is CF-HMX at Hall Beach, Nunavut. Most pictures show it to have one substantially complete Merlin left on it, though its reduction gear casing is smashed.
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33220
Just a thought, and it must be attainable as someone has had the other three engines.
By: Tom Kay - 19th January 2015 at 13:19
Hi Rich;
I’d consider any reasonable approach top getting decent Merlin parts, but I am not aware of wrecks that I could go pillage. No doubt they exist, but the whole concept of buying a Tilly hat and mosquito netting and trudging off into the wild North is another massive can of worms. Plus, wrecked parts tend to be hopelessly bent and rusty.
I will use modern techniques, such as the internet to hunt for parts, and patience with saving up “expendable” funds. I just got a quote today for many of my missing parts, some of which are reasonable cost, some aren’t. For example, today’s carburetor quote was for $400 US, as opposed to $1100 CAD from another collector near my city. So I’ll buy what I can when I get the chance.
However, the ideas are appreciated. Tom.
By: richw_82 - 19th January 2015 at 08:51
Glad the link was of use.
As you’re in Canada, what are the chances of finding a wrecked Merlin to pillage? I know there’s a couple of Avro York wrecks out there with badly smashed up engines attached. I realise its not as easy as it sounds in that the distances are immense and you’ll have to get permission but its an idea?
Kind regards,
Rich
By: Tom Kay - 19th January 2015 at 01:56
Well, it’s a little late for Christmas, but it still feels like it. This is a leap of faith and trust, sending a fair bit of money to a man I’ll never meet, 2 or 3 thousand miles away, in a different country. But so far, so good. Here are the castings, crated and awaiting pick up by the shipper.
Several high res pics would sure have helped me with my quarter scale Merlin project, so if I get a request for specific pictures looking at some part of the Merlin castings that I have, I’ll be happy to oblige.
Tom.
By: Tom Kay - 18th January 2015 at 22:28
QldSpitty;
I think the rapid sand molds would be perfect, but they are very expensive. Shame, because it is the perfect technology for this.
Rich;
I wrote to that outfit about Meteor parts, so thanks for the link. I know I’m in for a shock. I suspect it’s easier to come up with Meteor parts in England than Canada.
Thanks, Tom.
By: richw_82 - 18th January 2015 at 12:53
The idea about getting a meteor engine and scavenging usable Merlin parts is very good. But Meteors are also likely pretty rare. I’ll can an eye out.
Not so, they’re pretty easy to find, as the Centurion tank only came out of service pretty recently and there was a push to upgrade them to diesel engines instead of the Meteors shortly before that. Getting one for a decent price is another thing though, as they’re tractor pull fodder more than their aero engine counterpart nowadays.
These guys have a few.
http://www.team-whittingham.com/items-for-sale/
Regards,
Rich
By: QldSpitty - 18th January 2015 at 01:37
With 3D printing a lot of old manufacturing techniques are now becoming easier.There is work in Europe to recast Db601 series engine parts already.
Check these guys out.
http://www.voxeljet.de/en/services/sand/
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January 13, 2015 at 10:15 pm