Miles Martinet MS619, No. 12 AGS, RAF Bishops Court

Hello everyone and season’s greetings to you all.

I forwarded all the information to my cousin the other day and just recieved an e-mail in which he says “This morning I have sat down to read your last email in detail, Wow – what a staggering amount of information, it will take me a day or two to absorb it all. I am grateful to you and the other participants for their help – I don’t think that I could ever have found this depth of information”. Both he and I are appreciative of the digging around and presentation of the information here and privately and we would like to thank you all very much indeed. Thank you.

Well, thank you all for the staggering amount of detail that you have unexpectedly provided. I appreciate your efforts very much and I’m certain my cousin will, once I show him this thread.

I think that I have a pretty much complete picture of the events now. I understood that the body of the pilot, Sgt Wadmore, was never recovered so that is good, but sad news. We didn’t know that the aircraft had been recovered either and I hesitated to ask these sensitive details. The info from Airfixtwin on the recovery of the aircraft will now complete the story of what happened to it.

I had asked for the Squadron Code because I wanted to be able to describe the aircraft, show my cousin pictures including the one undergoing restoration and ask him to imagine the Squadron Code of MS619 painted on the fuselage.

Alan, your info from the ORB is much more than I ever expected so a special thank you for that. I had quite forgotten that such details would be recorded in the ORB. Thank you too, for the explanation of AVIA and BT. This will be useful to my cousin, should he wish to get complete copies of documents relating.

I think this thread is a superb example of the generosity and helpfulness of the members and will perhaps be useful to someone else in the future. Thanks again.

These are the entries from the No.12 AGS ORB which relate to the loss of MS619:

May 6th 1944, “Aircraft Martinet MS.619 crashed into sea. The pilot 1585841 Sgt Wadmore is reported missing the Tow Target operator’s body was recovered. He was 1128561 L.A.C. Mynett.”

May 6th 1944, “1585841 Sgt V. Wadmore Pilot, and 1128561 L.A.C. Mynett S. Tow Target operator, crashed into the sea in Martinet MS.619. The body of L.A.C. Mynett was recovered and sent to England for burial.”

May 6th 1944, “An aircraft of this Unit crash landed into Strangford Lough a approx 12.00 hours. The body of the Tow Target Operator 1128561 LAC Mynett was recovered from the salvaged plane at approx 12.00 hours 7.4.44 and conveyed to R.A.F. Station, Bishops Court.”

June 10th 1944, “The body of 1585841 Sgt Wadmore recovered from Strangford Lough this am was the pilot of the aircraft which crash landed on 6.5.44.”

The unit’s Martinets probably didn’t have the code ED, there is reference to another Martinet as J.5 in June 1944, they also recorded a number of Ansons by a single letter and number.

The letters AVIA and BT relate to the National Archives catalogue. The file reference AVIA 5/## is where investigation reports written by the Accidents Investigation Branch (now Air Accidents Investigation Branch) are found. BT is Board of Trade, there are a fairly large number of post war BT files which are complete copies of accident investigations, mostly in BT 217 and BT 233. The BT files I have copies of contain a copy of RAF, AIB and manufacturers reports as well as inquests records, police and sometimes fire service reports as well as photographs, but they are all post war.

Re Codes –

I would tend towards ‘ED’ as unit codes for 12AGS, based upon just one reference I have found, here: “On 12 October 1943 Reuben Edward Foulds was on board an Avro Anson I with serial number LV139 and unit markings of ED-4 of 12 AGS (Air Gunnery School) on a gunnery training flight. The aircraft had taken off from Bishopscourt, Northern
Ireland, but lost the target and then their way in poor visibility.”

This is from http://rotherhamwarmemorials.weebly.com/south-anston.html

Cheers,

Matt

P & Powis
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Phillips_and_Powis_Aircraft

The location should indeed be Killyleagh.

Crash was approx one mile east of Killyleagh, in Strangford Lough.
05 May 1944: The aircraft with two crew was on a drogue towing duty but was carrying out unauthorised low flying when about noon it crashed at the previously mentoned loaction.

The wreck site was visited by a pinnace from No56 ASRMCU based at Portaferry, with the aircraft recovered the following day by a salvage vessel, and taken to Bishops Court. It was later removed to the CRO at Short & Harland, where it was confirmed written off.. According to the records for No56 ASRMCU only one body was recovered.

12 AGS was formed at Bishops Court on August 1st 1943, flying Ansons and Martinets and operating until May 26th 1945.

Thank you everyone, for your contributions which make interesting reading. I’m much obliged to you all.

Tim, after the aircraft registration number you write P& Powis 1690 / C 23 (c). What does all that mean? I understand the rest and can explain that to my cousin quite easily. Your very kind offer of a copy of the Accident Report will be appreciated very much and I will pm my e-mail address in a moment.

Sabrejet, likewise! Would you mind putting the words to these letters, please? AVIA and BT.

Beermat, that’s a most useful observation that will be kept in mind when investigating further.

Now, I have some more questions and would be most grateful for any info again. I have seen Squadron Codes listed elsewhere on the web but No 12 AGS didn’t feature. Was this Unit ‘parented’ at Bishops Court whilst being part of a larger organisation? I can’t think that I have ever seen a picture of a WW2 RAF aircraft without a Squadron Code on it so do any of you know what it may have been on this aircraft?

I believe, from looking at the map, that ‘Hillylough’ is Killyleagh.

It sometimes seems that accident form locations are more often spelled wrongly than correctly. It all adds to the fun of the detective work..

Aerial,

My notes on this incident are detailed below. I will have a copy of the accident form and can send over a copy if required:

MS619 P& Powis 1690 / C 23 (c) Mercury XXV 14.08.43 12 A.G.S., Bishops Court; 06.05.44 Flying Accident Cat E damage, 12 A.G.S., Bishops Court, aircraft hit water low flying, bounced and stalled into Strangford Lough one mile East of Hillylough, Co. Down. Pilot Sergeant (Pilot) WADMORE, Victor (1585841) Killed, T.T.O. Leading Aircraftman MYNETT, Stanley (1128561) Killed. Accident time 12.05, Duty: Drogue Towing; 02.06.44 S.O.C.

Kind regards,

Tim

You need this ORB, available at The National Archives:

AIR 29/546 – 7 Air Observer School, Bishops Court, including 12 Air Gunners School; 01/04/1943 to 31/05/1945.

I can’t see a reference to an AVIA or BT accident report, but the RAF Museum should have AM1180 for the incident.

Date was 6th May 1944.