End of ZD952 Tristar

Always the negative.
Why not, think positive & do something about it.
Get the press involved, always a good start,” UK HISTORY ROTTING AWAY” , this would never happen in North America,( which is a crock of **** by the way).
But you get my drift, same when I was in Germany “nicht weinen mach etwas” (do not moan, but do something)
It actually works, believe me.

…but I think the arrival of the nimrod and vc10 have probably taken up some of the volunteer time that would have otherwise gone on the Comet.

I don’t know the specifics of the Nimrod support but the VC10 is being looked after by a new group, connected with GJD Services. That should not have had any effect on the Comet situation.

Some serious thread drift but I think the point is in the options. No one would argue it’s better to keep an aircraft outside and have it decay, but the choice is between not preserving it at all and preserving it outside for as long as possible. Nothing lasts forever, especially things made of metal.

I go to Bruntingthorpe a couple of times a year and the Comet is looked after, it just looks faded. It was tearing down the runway last year and anyone who’s been inside it knows it’s in good nick. It was due to be repainted at some point but I think the arrival of the nimrod and vc10 have probably taken up some of the volunteer time that would have otherwise gone on the Comet.

The notion that its better to preserve them now without hangarage has always been one of those mantra’s that stems from the late 1960’s and 70’s . The basis of it was
that so many types had become extinct – it was better to preserve in mass with the notion that at least one would survive in the long term. As is clear three ex RAF Comet 2’s became two cockpits – three Beverley’s have become one cockpit and one kept close to the sea and undoubtedly corroding.

Its a laudable and understandable policy but its deeply flawed. Saving them is the ‘easy’ part -as you point out with the DAS Britannia forty years outside -paint and manpower can keep the worst at bay -however its corroding and when you view her sister at Cosford you really have to question can we really preserve Britannia’s outside ?

… Orion, just out of interest what was it that “horrified” you so much about the Comet?.. An aircraft I might add that had Bruntingthorpe not acquired it in 1997 it would probably not be still around now!
…
Rob

It was covered in green algae. It clearly was unloved and uncared for and unless that changes it’s potential demise in 1997 has just been deferred. It is possible to keep an aeroplane outside and preserve it and the example of the DAS Britannia is a good one, but I would suggest that this is only possible if there is a team of dedicated men and women who have a passion for caring for it. This is obviously not the case with the Bruntingthorpe Comet.

Regards

I doubt that the manpower is available and it would follow that a Tristar would in a few years share the fate of the late lamented Cosford BA aircraft.

Christ B, Bruntingthorpe seem to be pretty good at recruiting former ground crew and aircrew alike to help maintain the fleet that they have there, not to mention the volunteers who chip in with all sorts of tasks. At the end of the day I’d say that if a group wants an aircraft then let them have one. Even twenty years extra longevity is better than nothing at all.

I went to Bruntingthorpe earlier this year and was horrified at the condition of the Comet. Also, to extend the thread a little, I’ve just come back from Newark where I found the condition of the Dove and Heron to be pretty desperate. Both are near to scrapping condition.

Very saddening!

Regards

Orion, just out of interest what was it that “horrified” you so much about the Comet?.. An aircraft I might add that had Bruntingthorpe not acquired it in 1997 it would probably not be still around now!

Unfortunately the British climate is not kind to airframes kept outside. Whatever the rights and wrongs we will see mass scrappings in years to come . Having large numbers of airframes outside at Bruntingthorpe and entertaining the crowds with taxy runs is great – however the long term can only be addressed how the Lightning
Preservation Group has – with buildings .

That’s a fair point, DB, and one you have made several times. But in my opinion it’s better to preserve them now for as long as possible even without hangarage. Just look at the amount of visitors who go to each open day at Bruntingthorpe and still enjoy seeing and hearing them. Something that we wouldn’t be able to do if they were all scrapped years ago just because of a lack of immediate undercover storage space. Creating enough hangar space for all of the aircraft based there would cost a heck of a lot of money, and I’m not totally sure if even they could foot the bill for that.

I’ll also point out the fact that the DAS Bristol Britannia G-AOVT will of been at Duxford for forty years next year – and to the best of my knowledge without ever having been in one of their hangars!!

Rob

Unfortunately the British climate is not kind to airframes kept outside. Whatever the rights and wrongs we will see mass scrappings in years to come . Having large numbers of airframes outside at Bruntingthorpe and entertaining the crowds with taxy runs is great – however the long term can only be addressed how the Lightning
Preservation Group has – with buildings .

I went to Bruntingthorpe earlier this year and was horrified at the condition of the Comet. Also, to extend the thread a little, I’ve just come back from Newark where I found the condition of the Dove and Heron to be pretty desperate. Both are near to scrapping condition.

Very saddening!

Regards

Having greatly enjoyed a visit to Bruntingthorpe in May this year whilst on holiday up that way, whilst in theory I’m all in favour of large aircraft such as the Tristar being preserved there, how long would they last parked out in the open? Is there the volunteer manpower to put in the necessary tlc on such a large aircraft such as we see from a regular thread elsewhere on this site that has to be lavished on Victor XL231?

I doubt that the manpower is available and it would follow that a Tristar would in a few years share the fate of the late lamented Cosford BA aircraft.

Binbrook01, The thread is about the Tristar, ZD952 in particular, and not a general consensus of what we should and should not keep.

If a group such as the Cold War Jets collection at Bruntingthorpe are willing and able to accommodate a type in its collection – regardless of what people may think of its relevance to the UK, then surely that answers the question of where we are going to “stick one” without expecting other museums with less resources to do so !

Rob

Wyvernfan

regarding the bit above

Where exactly some people think we are going to stick all these things we save (if we saved them) is a mystery…[/I]

I was referring to the people that seem to think we can keep every aircraft and helicopter

:rolleyes:

Where exactly some people think we are going to stick all these things we save (if we saved them) is a mystery…

🙂

From what I was told Bruntingthorpe were very keen to keep one of the Tristars, so that answers that question!

Flew on a Tristar with Air Transat, Stansted to Toronto and back again two weeks later in the early 90’s. Very smooth and quiet as far as I was concerned. And no it didn’t break down!

Rob

David the Tristar is very much a design that has a huge place in British aviation history,as you pointed out, it’s called the RB211.
I was lucky enough to sit in the cockpit of one while at 33,000 feet over Morecambe bay, back then I could clearly make out the Vulcan at Blackpool.
It was a wonderful aircraft to fly on,( first time I turned left at the door) & I hope one is preserved in the UK.
My 10 pence.
ATB Duggy

A quick Google shows five Lockheed L1011 TriStars museums in US or Middle East. Ok not RAF machines, but as a passenger jets they are preserved and represented.
What’s the history of the TriStar? The Lockheed bribery scandal over the sales to Japan when senior ministers in Japan and top execs at Lockheed had to resign, plus the delays in development of the RR RB211 engine that led to the collapse of Rolls Royce aero engines and a bail out by the UK government and Lockheed that the US government said was illegal (led by the then Californian Governor, Ronald Reagan). BA didn’t want the -500 and got rid of them to MoD as soon as pos, Pan Am went bust following Lockerbie and RAF got two more -500s from the MoD, a plane from what I suspect the RAF themselves never would have wanted….added to which, from the various war zones in the last 20 years, the delayed trooping flights on the planes (despite the best efforts of those who had to operate and service them in RAF)…. Errr let’s quietly scarp them! They were not even a British design.

Oh here we go again….

Someone who thinks we can save everything!!

There is a post on Fighter control regarding the Sea Kings at Eastleigh that are no doubt going to end up as washing machines. Where exactly some people think we are going to stick all these things we save (if we saved them) is a mystery…

🙂

Of course, if we didn’t have wars in the first place, we wouldn’t need the aircraft would we?! 😉

Funniest (and most accurate) observation of the week!

… too many flying the Spitfire is too much and everytime when one goes up it ends up crashing at some point.

Second funniest (and least accurate) observation of the week

Moggy

Most of the Ex RAF Tristar fleet are back off to the USA.

Surely the biggest problem with aircraft like this, is the English weather ?
They very soon start to look rather tatty.

…and get scrapped, like the Lyneham Comet, Cosford Vulcan, Hendon Beverley etc. Now there were three aircraft worth saving…

Surely the biggest problem with aircraft like this, is the English weather ?
They very soon start to look rather tatty.

This country needs to stop sending our troops to places that we do not need to be in we have lost so many men.

Of course, if we didn’t have wars in the first place, we wouldn’t need the aircraft would we?! 😉