Avro Manchester

Hi All,
I read on wiki that there where no Manchesters fitted with Radial engines but they hoped to further the develop Manchestr II with a pair Napier Sabre or Bristol Centaurus but never did instead going straight with the redesign with the four Merlin and the start of the legend, I also Found this lot as well! :eagerness:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1942/1942%20-%201181.html

http://axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?413

Dave Homewood, I think this is as close as your going to get matey enjoy ! 😀

Geoff.

From what I’ve read about it, the Sabre seemed only marginally more reliable than the Vulture even in service. They both seem to have been engines which were happy to go wrong if you merely looked at them the wrong way.

The Napier Sabre was fairly reliable in its production form.

Am I correct in thinking the Vulture was the only foray into the world of sleeve valve engines by Rolls-Royce? How come Bristol made reliable sleeve valve engines but everyone else who tried to build them seems to have had reliability issues? I think it is possibly that the sleeve valve format is more suitable for radials than anything with inline cylinders.

In Robert Kirbys book it tells how my fathers cousin J.B.Underwood brought back a Manchester on one engine from Holland. Sadly Jack and his crew where lost on the only Lancaster to go down on the 1,000 bomber raid on Cologne 1942.

Dave

The Manchester already had the most powerful engines available. They couldn’t “stick some big radials on it” because there weren’t any to hand. The Centaurus was some years from service and the Sabre (not a radial) at this stage was no more reliable than the Vulture. However, the truth remains that it was just too big even for working Vultures/Sabres/Centaurus.

Service loss rates show that the Wellington wasn’t a death trap, any more than the fabric-covered Mosquito, but its ability to absorb damage has been over-rated by propaganda. Many large aircraft came home with every bit as much damage as any Wellington.

Count me among those who rate a book of the quality of Kirby’s on the Manchester far above the superficial limitations of TV documentaries. Yes, you get sound which is good, but only a fraction of the information.

… Very few aircraft could absorb the amount of damage the Wellington could …

This is one of myths about the Wellington! An aircraft with fabric covered wings is, by definition, vulnerable. The Wellington was a death trap!

Regards

The IWM has an interesting bit of footage of a Manchester being used for arrestor hook trials at Ringway. I have a copy at home on a DVD as was part of a larger reel I had transferred from film.

LINK – http://www.axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?413

Hi All,
Found these snippets if any good ?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27862259@N02/6429584977/in/photostream/

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/r-a-fs-new-bomber#

http://www.lancaster-archive.com/forum/

Geoff.

Cheers Geoff.
Love that newsreel, brilliant find!

Pete

The Wellington did pretty well in contemporary productions such as ‘Target for Tonight’ and in the newsreel about building one in less than 24 hours;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11107561

I think it is a greater shame how little attention the venerable Wellington gets. It was the backbone of bomber command for years, even when the four engined types where becoming increasingly available. Very few aircraft could absorb the amount of damage the Wellington could, and it seemed to be well liked by its crews. It also did sterling service with Coastal Command, and even carried the bizzare looking mine sweeping equipment.

Because of the similarity of the Manchester and Lancaster fuselages the report written by the Airborne Forces Experimental Establishment clearing the Lancaster for paratroop operations also cleared the Manchester for paratrooping without conducting any trials as the Lancaster paratrooping trials they had carried out were considered sufficient.
Probably the only time the Manchester benefited (potentially) from work on the Lancaster.

Thanks Geoff, yes that’s the configuration of that Manchester in the photo, as seen with the Lancaster style tail. it looks great. They should have stuck some big radials on it and seen how it went.

That last link you posted goes to a dead forum, closed down last year.

I seem to recall seeing in one Lancaster video a pilot who had flown Manchesters on ops saying that apart from the unreliability of the engines the Manchester was not as rubbish as it is always made out to be.

Hi All,
Found these snippets if any good ?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27862259@N02/6429584977/in/photostream/

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/r-a-fs-new-bomber#

http://www.lancaster-archive.com/forum/

Geoff.

I wasn’t really referring to modern television. I was wondering if anything had been done years ago, back when loads of veterans were around, and when television was actually consistently well made, rather than the-repeat-the-same-crap-over-and-over style of the Hitler Channel.

It may have been well made, but British TV wasn’t actually that diverse, with only a few channels and limited broadcast hours…

I too would love to see a documentary on the Halifax. They have at least got several examples to use in such a production and lots of footage and photos. Has anything been done on this bomber though in the past? Or the Stirling?

What do you think? There is at least archive footage, but other than gems like ‘Speed Up On Stirlings’, I’m guessing not…

Hope to have a list appear here though…

Regards,

I wasn’t really referring to modern television. I was wondering if anything had been done years ago, back when loads of veterans were around, and when television was actually consistently well made, rather than the-repeat-the-same-crap-over-and-over style of the Hitler Channel.

I too would love to see a documentary on the Halifax. They have at least got several examples to use in such a production and lots of footage and photos. Has anything been done on this bomber though in the past? Or the Stirling?

Sure Dave, all good points. However I’m interested in history, and data – tough, obscure or difficult. Not emotion, though that has a place.

However I think Tim Triangle’s put his finger on the most likely shortfall.

And given that most TV programmes are looking at mainstream types and stories, even if the footage was there, I couldn’t see it getting a broadcast. (We’ve had recent programmes on the Lancaster, the Dambusters, (THAT’S an over-ploughed furrow) the Mosquito, ~ ‘the usual subjects’. I’d like to see something on the Halifax or the Stirling, as well as the Manchester, Boston, etc. etc, but I’m not holding my breath.) That said there’s some great work being done outside the mainstream TV.

Regards,

Is there much surviving footage of the Manchester? As it wasn’t in service for long, and was a new and relatively secret type for all of this, I’d be surprised if there’s enough to do a documentary with!