Phantom Disposal

Ah yes I’m getting ahead of myself David….

Although they have flown the first trials of SS on a Tiffie, they appear to be having some delays in the conformal tanks I believe. Don’t think they can carry one without the other………..Doh

As Storm Shadows go where the fuel tanks do. Well at least that what I recall reading!!

TS

Didn’t we sell a load of surplus Speys to the Chinese…….

‘Dave’ doesn’t have a massive effect on the retirement date of Tornado . The modification of Typhoon to carry Storm Shadow and Brimstone is the factor that decides the OSD of Tornado. Storm Shadow has already been carried on Typhoon and the contract to pay for finishing integration is paid.

Canopener Al

Its not so much who wants a Tornado, its a case of will there be any left at the rate they (GR.4s) are already going into the RTP !

Thumbs up that Midland AM got Gulf Killer, But look at the amount of F.3s left (Not very many)

And I bet you that BAE will be keen to supply parts to other users once ours have been flattened The Germans Italians and Saudis are planning to continue using them into the next decade, as for UK 2019 is the current swings and roundabout retirement date (Assuming DAVE) actually works!! or has no more engine fires.

Tim S

I don’t disagree in many ways, but when the MoD is tasked by Whitehall to get the best return they can on sale of surplus items, it’s money that talks.

For government, preservation equates to the service museums, plus the IWM. Posterity is served.

The dealers do get some preferential treatment I understand, as they will clear the airframes off base with a minimum of fuss, with no requirement for assistance, and they leave the site as they found it. Not saying that others wouldn’t do the same, but even I have left oil on a pan where it shouldn’t be when rescuing an aircraft for display.

You have firmly hit the nail on the head Bruce and there is competition between the bidders. However getting frames is all well and good, but when they have been stripped to spares recovery like the Jags were, try getting the bits and pieces required to get them running from the aviation spares companies. AVspares website will list them. The days of 5K airframes is well over until a load of Tornadoes get disposed off.. But who wants a Tonka? I would like to hear from people wanting to run a phantom down a runway. A bit hard without some Spey 202s. Not exactly a type of engine likely to get off a shelf after 22 years.

Its about time the value of these aircraft went up. Not to long ago a complete Lightning could be purchased for less than the scrap value. Now however with prices going up the scrap man wont (perhaps) be so keen, so more should be saved…..hopefully!

Not sure about that.

As I recall, aircraft usede to go for less than their scrap value because they were mixed metals and the cost of separating the metals to convert them into ingots was relatively high. With a couple of exceptions, scrap dealers were sympathetic to museums and collectors, if you approached them politely you could usually purchase the entire aircraft for not much more than was originally paid. I know the scrapping of the Javelins from Stafford and West Raynham was considerably delayed to give Museums time to collect them but in both cases the interested museum(s) couldn’t/didn’t get their act together and the aircraft were cut up.

Now that they go to preferred aircraft dealers no one can afford the asking prices so, as mentioned above, they sit rotting away in a field. So less aircraft enter preservation than before.

The tender pretty much puts them on a lorry !

Does anyone no the fate of ZE967 the F3 she is not on the tender?

Am I right in thinking that this is the first time an ex-RAF Phantom has come up for public disposal?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sale-of-phantom-aircraft

This is the disposal Document

great link. To quote:

“Sale of quantity two Phantom FG1 aircraft (without engines): tail numbers XV582 and XT864 and quantity one lightening F3 aircraft (without engines): tail number XR713. Located at RAF Leuchars, St Andrews, Fife”

well if you take the engines out that does lighten it a bit, I suppose :rolleyes:

Its about time the value of these aircraft went up. Not to long ago a complete Lightning could be purchased for less than the scrap value. Now however with prices going up the scrap man wont (perhaps) be so keen, so more should be saved…..hopefully!

In light of the recent auction prices and the media publicity around it I can see a few people looking at business opportunities to cash in on the potential value that these airframes could provide when sold in an open market to a wider audience. These airframes have probably come on the market at the right time for the MOD but the wrong time for the restorer/enthusiast. No doubt they will all competitively be sought after.

I don’t disagree in many ways, but when the MoD is tasked by Whitehall to get the best return they can on sale of surplus items, it’s money that talks.

For government, preservation equates to the service museums, plus the IWM. Posterity is served.

The dealers do get some preferential treatment I understand, as they will clear the airframes off base with a minimum of fuss, with no requirement for assistance, and they leave the site as they found it. Not saying that others wouldn’t do the same, but even I have left oil on a pan where it shouldn’t be when rescuing an aircraft for display.

The dealers are not paying auction prices though to the Mod in prefered bidding !!! Preservation in the U.K cannot manage to pay auction prices and many would argue why should they if their intention is public display and education- not resale. I recall the first batch of Sea Harriers that went out were something like 5K a piece and an RAF Harrier in the last few years that would have been similar money . The Mod needs to review its policy on disposals and talk to the BAPC to try and find more effective ways of getting the significant airframes into the right places.

Money talks guys. Sadly, the days of getting any airframe for free or peanuts are over. Look at the prices obtained for the harrier and Tornado recently. As long as there are people willing to pay that, then the preservation world has to up its game, and start to raise serious money if they want to stay in business.

One Phantom should be donated to an appropriate museum in Scotland to commemorate the use of the type in the country. These tenders are a clearer way of allowing museums to get a bid in for something – speaking to people regards the Lightning -the sums of money entering the pot for these airframes for museums to have a chance against dealers is frightening !

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sale-of-phantom-aircraft

This is the disposal Document

Copied from Fighter Control

Phantom FG.1’s XT864 & “Black Mike” XV582 are up for sale. Also, the F.3 Lightning XR713 is also available for sale from Leuchars.

Info via – https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati … m-aircraft
more info – https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s … rcraft.pdf

I’m not 100% certain but I thought FOI requests did not necessarily cover items that might be deemed ‘commercially sensitive!’ :confused:

As for Greek A7s I understand that the company ‘brokering’ those is no longer trading!! 😉

Vixen, have you considered asking Greece for a retiring Corsair 🙂

Worth a try Martin but don’t these dealers actually act as agents for MoD sometimes and get a commission on the sales?
Maybe a letter to the new Minister of Defence will provoke a response?