Passenger aircraft 1920s Style for You to Identify

Aeroplane published a six page article in November 2007 “The Mystery of the Missing Millionaire”. This was about the disappearance of the Alfred Lowenstein from G-EBYI.

Simon Kidston is the owner of DeH60 Moth G-AAXG. This was built specially for Allan Butler Chairman of deHavillands.

Quite the all-action hero….! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Kidston

Kidston’s nephew is active in the vintage motor trade operating out of Switzerland. If you have any questions about Glen, he might be able to help.
http://www.kidston.com/team.php

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From the dust-cover of ‘The Man Who Fell From The Sky’ by William Norris 1987.

Quite the all-action hero….! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Kidston

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Trying to piece together the jigsaw… yes, I’m sure the central figure is Lt Cmdr Glen Kidston who was the new owner of G-EBYI (Fokker F.VIIA) after the 1928 accident with Lowenstein http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=59899 and Pilot Drew on the right. And probably on the hunting trip to Nairobi would explain the African boy in the picture. So that just leaves the fellow on the left and why Great Aunt Laura should have had these photos. Possibly co-pilot Robert Little mentioned in the Lowenstein report.

Thanks to all for your response to my query this morning. I’m just sifting through all the clues you’ve given me to see if I can come up with an answer.
These photos were found together in the album of a great aunt (1876-1969) which has passed down to a 2nd cousin of mine. She was of Maltese descent, but born in Hampstead, married a chap from Newcastle who died young, then went to Malta, married again and stayed in Malta for the rest of her life. So we can’t think of any situation she’d have been present in these photos and maybe they are just ‘celebrity’ photos she collected. (She was grand-mother of the celebrated lateral thinker Edward de Bono, you may be interested to know!).

Good find, Adrian….. Photo of Drew about 24 pics down here (and he’s wearing that hat !!) :
http://www.afleetingpeace.org/index.php/business-pleasure/14-business-and-pleasure/167-the-pilots-of-imperial-airways
Characters under the pax windows in the delcampe pic look more like numerals but could be just read as ‘BLEU’

Are you the fellow working on an account of the Empire Boats?…..Mick

I reckon you’ve got it, Longshot. Searching for G-EBYI brought up this:
http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id,263517805,var,Foto-photo-Flugzeug-Fokker-DVIIa-3m-G-EBYI-WerkNr5063-ehemals-H-NAEK-avion-aeroplane-aircraft,language,E.html
One might just be able to make out the ‘Ciel Bleu’ below the window. This means we can tie both photos together with the aircraft and the people.

I’m wondering at my identification of Ted Hillman now. To my mind there is a distinct resemblance, but I can’t place him with a hunting party in the African bush in 1928…

I wonder why the underlined registration? I know it was specified in the original convention which set out the basis for civil registrations – was it for government-owned aircraft? But so far as I’m aware it was hardly ever used anywhere and was quickly forgotten.

‘Hillman’ in the check jacket and the gent in the hat are in both photos.

My hunch is that registration ends in I and that it’s G-EBYI from which it’s owner the financier Lowenstein fell to his death in 1928 (pilot named Drew)
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=59899

latter from abpic photo file http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1016534 (Drew listed here, too)

See’Hunting by Air’ right hand column: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1928/1928%20-%201037.html?search=fokker%20croydon%20hunting%20africa

Aircraft ditched? in the Sudan Nov?1928

Wonder if I can throw one or two other pieces in to the pot?

1). A J Jackson’s British Civil Aircraft 1919 – 1972: Volume II states that G-EBPL, G-EBTQ, G-EBTS, G-AEHE & G-AEHF were all ex KLM aircraft.
2). Have also checked through Air Britain’s The British Civil Aircraft Registers 1919 – 1928 & Air Britain’s The British Civil Aircraft Registers 1928 – 1930, can find no mention of a Fokker with the name Ciel Bleu.
3). Amsterdam does have an up market restraunt called Ciel Blue. Cannot ascertain when it was founded.
4). The “G” on the tail was mandatory when the G-EB– series of registrations was in use but was discontinued soon after the G-A— series started.
5). Ted Hillman?? Certainly possible.

I like you wonder if the two images are related. The second one certainly depicts a British registered aircraft. Have to wonder if the first one is perhaps a Dutch registered aircraft.

Maybe an Avro, but the paint scheme in post #5 suggests either previous ownership by KLM, or painting by them, which makes it definitely a Fokker. There were seven Fokkers of this configuration on the British register, and another five single-engined F.VIIA which I suppose might have been up-engined (I’ve no evidence that this happened – does anyone else know?) From G-INFO, they are:

G-EBPV 4982 FOKKER F7A/3M
G-AATG 5206 FOKKER F7A/3M
G-EBYI 5063 FOKKER F7B/3M
G-EBZJ 5087 FOKKER F7B/3M
G-AADZ 5195 FOKKER F7B/3M
and the two twin-engined F.VIII
G-AEPT 5043
G-AEPU 1046

The five single engine Fokker F.VIIA were:
G-EBPL 4938
G-AEHF 4952
G-EBTS 4953
G-AEHE 4984
G-EBTQ 5023

So which of these could it be? Looking at the photo in post #5 I could convince myself the registration ended in ‘L’ – hence my wondering if EBPL might have been turned into a trimotor. If we keep just to the aircraft built as trimotors, then perhaps that’s a stylised ‘G’ and it’s AATG. Although recorded on the CAA database as and F.VIIA/3m, the pdf of the registration document
https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/HistoricalMaterial/G-AATG.pdf
calls it a F.VIIB/3m. Sadly that doesn’t help us much.
The ‘G’ on the tail was a crucial part of aircraft registration in the 1920s, but would have been falling out of use around the time that AATG was first registered in the UK, January 1930.

Looking at the photo in post #6, I rather think the gentleman in the middle is Ted Hillman, eventually founder of Hillman’s Airways, although in 1930 he was still a bus and coach operator. Ted Hillman died on December 31, 1934, so that provides one end of a date range, at least. I can’t identify the other two yet…

Edit:
After a bit more digging, and some playing around in Photoshop, I’ve convinced myself that the three gentlemen are standing under the wing of Fokker F.VIIA G-EBTQ
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The aircraft was only on the British register for a few weeks in the later half of 1927:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/HistoricalMaterial/G-EBTQ.pdf
Unfortunately that doesn’t match up with either of the aircraft I mentioned before. Are you sure those two photos belong together?

Just a guess but possibly Avro Ten?

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This taken at the same time shows a single ‘G’ on the tail. Don’t know who the people are.

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Does anyone know anything about this plane with ‘Ciel Bleu’ on the side? Early 20’s Fokker , I believe, but don’t know where it was.

Yes, this is it. I forgot that Fokker also produced in the USA. Thank you!

Regards, RT

I think you’ll find it’s this one:
http://www.dmairfield.org/Collections/Willey%20Collection/Early%20Career/index.html
Fokker Universal NC3317

I am pretty sure it is a Fokker Universal……..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_Universal
As you can see a number were built in the US by Atlantic Aircraft Corporation.

Planemike