Why the Supermarine Scimitar was rarely mentioned?

I trust you refer to the aircraft and not our forum member!!;)

If a Scimitar wasn’t leaking then it was empty…

Same could be said for the E.E. Lightning :apologetic:

Failure or not, I’ve always thought that the state of Scimitar preservation is a bit depressing. Only three survivors: one marooned outside(?) in a US museum (where, notwithstanding the super series of photos above, its relevance is pretty limited). Another rotting away in a storage yard in Hampshire for want of room inside Solent Sky, leaving only one (FAAM) undercover and secure.

Wouldn’t it be nice to see another Scimitar given a proper home at somewhere like Newark? It’s only a matter of time until we’re down to one of these handsome aircraft 🙁

If a Scimitar wasn’t leaking then it was empty…

Yes it it, but it is from the same shoot.
So its Victorious,the other two photos come from mixed landings.
The other two on Saratoga.
Regards Duggy

The second photo is labeled as “Centaur class carrier” and “1958”.

The only Centaur-class carrier to carry the huge 3-D radar “dustbin” was Hermes – which commissioned in 1959.
The details of the island and the front of the angle deck do not match Hermes, but do match the modernized Illustrious class carrier Victorious.

That photo, like the one above it, is of Victorious.
In fact, I already had that exact photo (but larger), with the label “HMS Victorious 1959 with USN aircraft”.

These next four photo’s come from the U.S. Navy archives ,taken in the “Med” probably 58.
The Scimitar is labeled as an “Attacker”, & the Venom as a Vixen.
But some wonderful shots.




Right click & save as for details

Some of my earliest aviation memories are seeing squadron strength Scimitar formations at low level and high speed : )
Why did british designers ignore servicing requirements and make a/c so difficult to work on ?… genuinely puzzled by that one…you can have a good design completely let down by very poor detail design…I know – I have worked on some of them LOL
Whilst I would not defend the Scimitar design too strongly I think it also should be remembered that it was not all bad and also that our carriers were simply not big enough for high performance jet aircraft – an excerpt from Thunder and Lightnings…

Despite the appalling accident rate, the Scimitar was generally well thought of by its pilots and has been described by many as ‘a delight to fly’ – at least below 25,000 ft – above that, the limitations that gave it a very short life in the fighter role became painfully apparent and handling was much less carefree than at low level. Scimitar maintainers did not have to undergo the pain of some of their RAF counterparts on types such as the Lightning; though the complex fuel system generated leaks by the dozen and hydraulic problems kept them busy, in general the type was straightforward to maintain. It was certainly a more successful design than Supermarine’s other swept wing jet – the Swift. – See more at: http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/scimitar/history.php#sthash.vdjhIWck.dpuf

Colour me confused but I’m sure the V tailed straight wing ancestor of the Scimitar was the type 508. I saw it in an unburnt state at Predannack in the late 1960s or early 70s. I wrote to Flight and Aeroplane at the time lamenting that such a rare type was going to consumed by flame to provide training for firemen. This was before the FAA museum was up and running, unfortunately.

Why rarely mentioned? It was an embarrassment, for industry and for Ministers.

12/52. Korea. Stalin assumed to be planning to invade FRG in 1955. Vickers was UK’s industrial powerhouse (there’s a PhD for he that can explain the meteoric demise of this entity, across aero, marine, armour, heavy engineering generally). But then – a safe pair of hands. 25 Valiants ordered 2/51 to carry UK’s A-Bomb; (to be Swift) had been selected as a NATO-Standard type, multi-sourced for Neth/Belg and others (Hunter was the back up, Hurricane to Spitfire: Swift was the star of Sound Barrier). And they had Hermes in build, Victorious in hefty refit. Logical next step in that evolution, Seafang … Swift … was (to be) Scimitar strike-fighter. FAA constantly sought Jack-of-all-Trades, constantly flying Master of None, because its carriers held so few a/c (Eagle/Ark, cf: (abortive) USS United States, then Forrestals). Though Hawker Siddeley Group had Sea Hawk, they also had much for RAF, whereas V-S’ Experimental resources were ready to move on from Swift. Ministers chose to treat ghastly Attacker as juvenilia, learning. So: R&D funds for (to be) Scimitar, with flap blowing, complex weapons integration, challenging structure…Forget 1955, insert…well, much later.

Swift was to hurt the politicians that had ordered it in flocks. One, Macmillan, would write of taking over at Defence, 10/54, to find “fighters in a sad state of confusion” as he chopped the later Marks. Systems Integration, the Weapon System concept seemed beyond V-S’ competence (others too: Gloster). By 1957 it was evident the wrong horse had been backed and quantities were chopped to the eventual 76. When V-S’ last design gasp, T.571, won friends in the (to be) TSR.2 tender, Ministers required it to be parented, not at Hursley Park, but Weybridge, for deeper Systems resources. By the time Scimitar had any operational capability, 12/58, the even more thud-like Phantom, initiated only months later in 1953, was benchmark.

That was story at the time. Certainly the Sea Vixens were not initially deployed and called up after the Hunters and Buccs had not done the business. So the story went.

I used to work with one of the Observers on the Sea Vixens that bombed the Tory Canyon. His take on it was that THEY had to do the job when the RAF had failed to hit it. Mind you, most of his stories were about how the FAA was better than the RAF.

Yes indeed that was determined at Cabinet level by the Wilson Government.

……Weren’t there also some derisory newspaper reports over our seeming inability to actually hit – and then set fire to – the oil slick ???

Ken

From some of the aircrew feedback that NAM recorded it was reported that rupturing the tanks to release the cargo and then ignite the oil on the surface of the sea was a deliberate act, which was deemed to be the safest way to burn off the cargo.

Yes I think your last recollection is accurate!!

Buccs from Lossiemouth, Hunters from Chivenor and Sea Vixens from Yeovilton were used to drop aviation fuel and petroleum jelly.

I seem to recall questions being asked in Parliament about the UK having stocks of napalm.

Some MP’s appeared to be shocked that we had such ‘weapons’ ………

Weren’t there also some derisory newspaper reports over our seeming inability to actually hit – and then set fire to – the oil slick ???

Ken

Buccs from Lossiemouth, Hunters from Chivenor and Sea Vixens from Yeovilton were used to drop aviation fuel and petroleum jelly.

Buccaneer XN964 that is displayed at Newark Air Museum was involved in the Torrey Canyon Ops, here’s some information from a 2008 commemorative event. Not sure about Scimitars.

“The museum is also seeking information that relates to a famous mission its Buccaneer aircraft XN964 took part in 41 years ago in March 1967.

On 18th March 1967 the Torrey Canyon super tanker, which was destined for the Milford Haven oil terminal in South Wales struck Pollards Rock in the Seven Stone reef in the dangerous waters between Land’s End and the Scilly Isles. As the super tanker broke up aircraft from the Royal Air Force and Fleet Air Arm were called in to drop various munitions on the stricken tanker.

At the time of the incident our Buccaneer XN964 was serving with 736 Naval Air Squadron at RNAS Lossiemouth, Morayshire. The museum has references that show it took part in the missions to bomb the Torrey Canyon on March 28th 1967, when flying directly from RNAS Lossiemouth and also whilst temporarily based at RNAS Brawdy, Pembrokeshire.

The museum is keen to locate any pictures of XN964 flying on these sorties against the Torrey Canyon for incorporation into the growing historical record it is building up about the aircraft and its operations.”

They’re still collecting information! 🙂

Also, one of the regular participants at Cockpit-Fest sometimes displays an impressive restored Scimitar cockpit at the event!

Were they used to attack the ‘Torrey Canyon’ or was that left to Buccs?

Many Scimitars shared our line in Aden(8sqdn)in 1962 of one of our carriers ,they were built like a brick outhouse!Saw many low level high speed fly bys ,very impressive!!!