Who was credited with the Folly farm Ju88 27/9/40?

I don’t think it is possible to attribute any of the downed aircraft to any one pilot. Most of what happened can only be discovered from the pilots’ combat reports. For example Forbes is obviously describing the third Ju 88 that fell in the Channel near Lydd.

Forbes

“I flew towards the diving fighters, but was unable to reach them before they engaged the rest of the squadron. Then I saw a He 111 leave the combat and start diving towards the coast. As no one followed him I dived on to him, and caught him up at about 10,000 ft. I closed and, after two short bursts, three or four of the crew baled out. As the enemy aircraft continued in an even dive I thought that the pilot might still be in his place. I therefore decided to destroy the e/a and set fire to the port engine. It crashed in flames either on the shore or just in the sea on the east coast of Kent.”

But other pilots may tell a very similar story. Zumbach gives an insight as to what was going on.

Zumbach

“I attacked a Heinkel 111 that popped out of the formation. with some others I started to pound him in turns. After a moment the gunner baled out. We were joined by three more machines which, hell knows why, decided it was their duty to shoot at this particular machine, while they had a whole lot of others above us. I got to it once more. After the burst it wheeled and rammed into a small town, knocking one house down and setting another one on fire.”

Lots of fighters firing at the same aircraft, especially the wounded ones.

Poles in Defence of Britain, Robert Gretzyngier, lists the following claims for 27/9/40.

Ferić V6681/RF*B 09.20 Bf 109 dest Horsham He 111 dest. Between Croydon and Gatwick.
Frantisek R4175/RF*R 09.20 He 111 dest Horsham Bf 110 dest Gatwick.

No Ju 88 claims in the morning. Kent and Urbanowicz (2) claim Ju 88 in the afternoon 15.25 London – Hastings.

In the text.

….the other wingman, Ferić, being left on his own. Later described the action:

“I attacked an Me 109, and after a short burst enemy aircraft exploded into flames and crashed to earth. I then approached the bombers who were already being attacked by some of our aircraft. I attacked a Heinkel and fired three short bursts. The pilot was evidently killed as the machine dived without smoke or flames, and crashed between Croydon and Gatwick. As my machine had been hit by machine gun bullets I returned to Northolt.”

The aircraft attacked by many Hurricanes which crashed close to the area described by P/O Ferić would be the Ju 88A-1 Werk Nr. 8095, coded 3Z+HK, of 2./KG 77 which went down in flames and crashed on Folly Farm at South Holmwood.

Hurricane Ace Josef Frantisek The True story, Jiri Rajlich.

All of their adventures deserve description, but Frantisek’s is also worth mention. First, in the Horsham area, he attacked a bomber he identified as an He 111. He reported that he first set on fire the starboard, and then the port engine Soon afterwards he added a Bf 110 destroyed in unusual circumstances – when he failed to force it to land at an English airfield.

In his entry in the squadron diary Frantisek wrote laconically again: “27.9.40. We flew up to the He 111s and attacked with kpt. Forbes. I set one on fire, then on rear right Me 109 – I broke to right and below me Me 110s, about six. I shot one down and escorted it to the airfield where it burnt out.”

How much drama is hidden behind these brief words? Let us try to reconstruct it.

As regards his first victim, this could not have been an He 111 (those belonged to KG 53 that headed for Bristol and 303 Sqn did not engage them), but one of four Ju 88s from I.IKG 77. According to the circumstances described in their combat reports it seems that pilots of 303 Sqn took part in the shooting down of three Ju 88s, while the fourth one was downed by the British AA fire over Cudham. Ju 88A-1 (WNr. 8095, 3Z+HK) from 2./KG 77 was first hit in the starboard engine which started to burn. It jettisoned its bombs and immediately afterwards the fighters set its other engine on fire The crew started to bale out, and the uncontrolled machine crashed at 9.30 at Folly Farm, South Holmwood near Dorking, and was destroyed by fire Uffz. R Schumann and Uffz. H-J. Tenholt were captured unhurt, while Uffz. A. Ackermann was wounded Uffz.Wilhelm Menningmann was missing. The aircraft was attacked by more RAF fighters and it is not impossible that F/O Miroslaw Ferić participated in its destruction, although like Frantisek he misidentified his enemy as an “He 111” (Ferić’s victim apparently crashed about 9.20 between Croydon and Gatwick,these being located to north-east and south-east of Dorking, respectively). Frantisek could have participated in this success on two accounts: the circumstances of combat were similar, and Horsham, where he claimed his success, is only 15 km south of Dorking.

The second one was Ju 88A-1 (WNr. 8109, 3Z+BL) from 3./KG 77 which left formation with its starboard engine damaged and fell to repeated attacks of many fighter aircraft that hit, among others, the cockpit where the entire crew was located Eventually it crashed at 9.20 at North End Lodge, East Grinstead In the hopeless situation the airmen started to bale out, but only one of four was saved Fw. A. Brautigam fell into trees and with a broken leg he ended up in the nearby famous Queen Victoria Hospital. Uffz. H. Winkelmann, who landed by parachute at Hartfield (south-east of East Grinstead) also ended up there. His head wound was so serious, however, that he died in the hospital the same day The third crew member, Fw. R Precht, baled out but his parachute failed to open (he also fell near Hartfield), while Uffz. H. Kasing, probably killed while still on board did not attempt to leave the plane. According to later British analyses the destruction of this Ju 88 could have been shared, among others, by S/Ldr Ernest A. McNab, F/Lt Gordon R McGregor, F/O De Peyser Brown, P/O Beverley E. Christman, all from 1 Sqn RCAF (all four of them claimed a Ju 88 shared destroyed at 9.20 south of Kenley) and P/OJan Zumbach from 303 Sqn (at 9.20 he fired at an “He 111”). Here, again, we have accounts of damaging the starboard engine and the place of the crash, East Grinstead is a mere 18 km north-east of Horsham.

The third downed Junkers was Ju 884-1 ({Nr. 21.64,32+IK) from 2./KG 77. Seriously damaged by fighters, while attempting to get back to France with both engines shot up, it ended in the English Channel about 9.40 just a short way from Lydd near Dungeness, Kent. The crew baled out before the impact. Uffz. G Schmidt and Uffz. H. Sergocki were picked up uninjured and taken prisoner while Flg. W Krebs and Uffz. W Hertlein probably drowned It seems that among numerous pilots who fired at this aircraft were P/O Patrick P. C Barthropp (claimed an “He 111” at 9.20 south-east of Mayfield) and Sgt Cyril F. Babbage (claimed a Ju 88 at 9.20 north of Dungeness) both from 502 Sqn; Sgt John S. Gilders Ju 88 at 9.30 south of Dungeness) and Sgt Norman V Glew (“Do 17” at 9.15 south of Dungeness) both from 72 Sqn; and F/Lt Athol S. Forbes from 303 Sqn (“He 111” at 9.20 off the east coast of Kent). But in this case Frantisek’s participation is questionable as Lydd is over 90 km from Horsham. It is not impossible, however, that Frantisek may have fired at it and left it to be finished by others, who then contributed to its definitive end After all he attacked with F/Lt Forbes who is listed among those who observed its crash near the coast.

Many thanks for a detailed reply Antoni,
Would you come to the conclusion that Feric and Frantisek were the favourites in the demise of ju88 (8095) but favoring Josef Frantisek?

Poles in Defence of Britain, Robert Gretzyngier, lists the following claims for 27/9/40.

Ferić V6681/RF*B 09.20 Bf 109 dest Horsham He 111 dest. Between Croydon and Gatwick.
Frantisek R4175/RF*R 09.20 He 111 dest Horsham Bf 110 dest Gatwick.

No Ju 88 claims in the morning. Kent and Urbanowicz (2) claim Ju 88 in the afternoon 15.25 London – Hastings.

In the text.

….the other wingman, Ferić, being left on his own. Later described the action:

“I attacked an Me 109, and after a short burst enemy aircraft exploded into flames and crashed to earth. I then approached the bombers who were already being attacked by some of our aircraft. I attacked a Heinkel and fired three short bursts. The pilot was evidently killed as the machine dived without smoke or flames, and crashed between Croydon and Gatwick. As my machine had been hit by machine gun bullets I returned to Northolt.”

The aircraft attacked by many Hurricanes which crashed close to the area described by P/O Ferić would be the Ju 88A-1 Werk Nr. 8095, coded 3Z+HK, of 2./KG 77 which went down in flames and crashed on Folly Farm at South Holmwood.

Hurricane Ace Josef Frantisek The True story, Jiri Rajlich.

All of their adventures deserve description, but Frantisek’s is also worth mention. First, in the Horsham area, he attacked a bomber he identified as an He 111. He reported that he first set on fire the starboard, and then the port engine Soon afterwards he added a Bf 110 destroyed in unusual circumstances – when he failed to force it to land at an English airfield.

In his entry in the squadron diary Frantisek wrote laconically again: “27.9.40. We flew up to the He 111s and attacked with kpt. Forbes. I set one on fire, then on rear right Me 109 – I broke to right and below me Me 110s, about six. I shot one down and escorted it to the airfield where it burnt out.”

How much drama is hidden behind these brief words? Let us try to reconstruct it.

As regards his first victim, this could not have been an He 111 (those belonged to KG 53 that headed for Bristol and 303 Sqn did not engage them), but one of four Ju 88s from I.IKG 77. According to the circumstances described in their combat reports it seems that pilots of 303 Sqn took part in the shooting down of three Ju 88s, while the fourth one was downed by the British AA fire over Cudham. Ju 88A-1 (WNr. 8095, 3Z+HK) from 2./KG 77 was first hit in the starboard engine which started to burn. It jettisoned its bombs and immediately afterwards the fighters set its other engine on fire The crew started to bale out, and the uncontrolled machine crashed at 9.30 at Folly Farm, South Holmwood near Dorking, and was destroyed by fire Uffz. R Schumann and Uffz. H-J. Tenholt were captured unhurt, while Uffz. A. Ackermann was wounded Uffz.Wilhelm Menningmann was missing. The aircraft was attacked by more RAF fighters and it is not impossible that F/O Miroslaw Ferić participated in its destruction, although like Frantisek he misidentified his enemy as an “He 111” (Ferić’s victim apparently crashed about 9.20 between Croydon and Gatwick,these being located to north-east and south-east of Dorking, respectively). Frantisek could have participated in this success on two accounts: the circumstances of combat were similar, and Horsham, where he claimed his success, is only 15 km south of Dorking.

The second one was Ju 88A-1 (WNr. 8109, 3Z+BL) from 3./KG 77 which left formation with its starboard engine damaged and fell to repeated attacks of many fighter aircraft that hit, among others, the cockpit where the entire crew was located Eventually it crashed at 9.20 at North End Lodge, East Grinstead In the hopeless situation the airmen started to bale out, but only one of four was saved Fw. A. Brautigam fell into trees and with a broken leg he ended up in the nearby famous Queen Victoria Hospital. Uffz. H. Winkelmann, who landed by parachute at Hartfield (south-east of East Grinstead) also ended up there. His head wound was so serious, however, that he died in the hospital the same day The third crew member, Fw. R Precht, baled out but his parachute failed to open (he also fell near Hartfield), while Uffz. H. Kasing, probably killed while still on board did not attempt to leave the plane. According to later British analyses the destruction of this Ju 88 could have been shared, among others, by S/Ldr Ernest A. McNab, F/Lt Gordon R McGregor, F/O De Peyser Brown, P/O Beverley E. Christman, all from 1 Sqn RCAF (all four of them claimed a Ju 88 shared destroyed at 9.20 south of Kenley) and P/OJan Zumbach from 303 Sqn (at 9.20 he fired at an “He 111”). Here, again, we have accounts of damaging the starboard engine and the place of the crash, East Grinstead is a mere 18 km north-east of Horsham.

The third downed Junkers was Ju 884-1 ({Nr. 21.64,32+IK) from 2./KG 77. Seriously damaged by fighters, while attempting to get back to France with both engines shot up, it ended in the English Channel about 9.40 just a short way from Lydd near Dungeness, Kent. The crew baled out before the impact. Uffz. G Schmidt and Uffz. H. Sergocki were picked up uninjured and taken prisoner while Flg. W Krebs and Uffz. W Hertlein probably drowned It seems that among numerous pilots who fired at this aircraft were P/O Patrick P. C Barthropp (claimed an “He 111” at 9.20 south-east of Mayfield) and Sgt Cyril F. Babbage (claimed a Ju 88 at 9.20 north of Dungeness) both from 502 Sqn; Sgt John S. Gilders Ju 88 at 9.30 south of Dungeness) and Sgt Norman V Glew (“Do 17” at 9.15 south of Dungeness) both from 72 Sqn; and F/Lt Athol S. Forbes from 303 Sqn (“He 111” at 9.20 off the east coast of Kent). But in this case Frantisek’s participation is questionable as Lydd is over 90 km from Horsham. It is not impossible, however, that Frantisek may have fired at it and left it to be finished by others, who then contributed to its definitive end After all he attacked with F/Lt Forbes who is listed among those who observed its crash near the coast.