Spitfire Identity – Any Ideas?

I hadn’t spotted Ross McNeill post #12

I have P8658 as the Heathfield incident.

I see that Air Britain Registers seem to confirm that, although the indications from my Police Master List is that the Heathfield crash was indeed P8568.

I will try to retrieve the full Police report.

I agree with P85xx. I’ve begun some analysis, but in the meantime, a couple of loose thoughts:

There were a small number of Vb within this range, also, so they can’t be discounted yet.

CB didn’t apply the Sky band, so the style of going around the serial might possibly give a clue as to what MU “processed” the aircraft before issue to the squadron.

bob

Thanks, Antoni!

As a matter of interest, if the other photo depicts P7350 it is, of course, the BBMF aircraft.

P7350 was damaged on 25 October 1940 over Hastings and supposedly crash-landed in a field ‘near Hastings’. I have never been able to establish where.

However, the image we are talking about shows no damage to the prop blades and this rather suggests a wheels-down landing.

If it was inside the Borough of Hastings, then local Police reports etc don’t exist any longer. However, the records outside the Borough exist (East Sussex) and there are no reports in Police or ARP files that tie up. Thus, I’m thinking it may well be over the border into nearby Kent. But where? I have never even picked up stories from locals about a Spitfire down in the Borough of Hastings besides those we know about. There was, though, a Hurricane on 27 October 1940.

Slight bit of thread drift….but still related!

Scan of article in the post. Martel is mentioned. All in Polish so you will have to ask ‘the man’ what it’s all about.

Yes, Antoni. I think I supplied the photo to Wojtek. I certainly had the original. In fact, if he is reading this then I’d much appreciate a decent quality scan as my original got water damaged in a minor flood some years ago. What were the details that Wojtek established/published? My recall was that there was a suggested link to P7350 and Plt Off Martel?

If the other photograph, with the chessboard, is the one I think it is, then Mr Matusiak knows something about it. He published it in Lotnictwo z Szachownicą 25 (May 2007). 74 and 603 squadrons are mentioned and a number of serial numbers as well as the name Henryk Szczęsny. Not every aircraft adorned with a chessboard belonged to a Polish squadron. It could have been transferred or flown by a Polish pilot assigned to an RAF squadron.

F1180s give a different unit for P8568 not No.118 Sqn but No.610 Sqn with Sgt R W Richardson

Crash is confirmed as Heathfield but airframe initially listed as Cat W for both airframe and engine.

There is no other Spitfire crash at Heathfield on this day.

Ahh – cheers Andy posts crossed.

Regards
Ross

Geographically, and time-wise, the Heathfield location might be a better ‘fit’. However P8568 was with 118 Sqn and not involved at Heathfield on 14 July 1941. (Heathfield, by the way, is East Sussex not Kent)

Spitfire P8658 ‘Borough of Morley’ was the aircraft at Heathfield on 14 July 1941. The controls jammed and Sgt R W Richardson (610 Sqn) forced-landed at Little Bigknowle, Heathfield, after a sweep. The aircraft turned over after hitting a hedge.

However, I still think we are looking at a P85 rather than a P86 ?

Thanks, Ross, for that input, too.

Hi Gents,

F1180 for P8526 says engine failure on approach, crashed with flaps and u/c down.

Neither the flaps or the u/c in the photograph show damage sustained when down.

So scratch P8526 from the possible list.

Regards
Ross

Thank’s, guys.

A Polish connection cannot be ruled out, just that the other photograph that I thought was this aircraft from the front probably isn’t the same aircraft. Although that one was Polish (or at some stage had a Polish connection), it doesn’t mean we can exclude a Polish squadron for P85?? or P81??. I agree regarding the vertical stroke of the first code letter.

Can probably add P8526 to Bradburger’s list. I know you dropped the polish link, Andy but 306 would have had UZ codes and it crashed at Eastcote while heading to Northolt. 19.8.41

As another piece of circumstantial evidence, the code letter has a vertical line – so E, R, N etc.

I note that 616 Sqn’s code letters were “YQ”, whereas 118’s were “NK”. I don’t know what 1 CAACU’s code letters were.

Not a confirmation I’m afraid, but could it be P8531 or P8568, or even P8658 perhaps?

P8531 IIb CBAF MXII 24MU 22-4-41 SF Northolt 1-6-41 1CAACU 18-3-42 stalled crashed Camer Farm Gravesend Kent CE 23-6-42

P8568 IIb CBAF MXII 12MU 25-5-41 118S 22-6-41 engine failed force-landed overturned nr Heathfield Kent 14-7-41 132S 12-10-41 53OTU 7-5-42 61OTU 27-5-44 SOC 23-11-44

P8658 IIb CBAF MXII24MU 11-5-41 616S 25-5-41 controls jammed on return from sweep force-landed crashed Heathfield Kent 14-7-41 SOC 22-7-41

(I note that in the case of P8531, the accident was in 1942).

Cheers

Paul

Just had a quick look at P81, or P85 serialled aircraft in ‘Spitfire – The History’.

In both those serial ranges, it would make it a MK.IIb. (Hence the cannon bulges). If it’s the former serial, then it would appear to have been a conversion.

Not much help I know, but I’m taking a look through to see the range to see if I can perhaps identify the aircraft.

Cheers

Paul

OK…had a look at the other photo which is clearly not the same aircraft, so forget the Polish reference.

Because the photo was taken by a 49 MU airman and came directly from him.

Another shot which MAY be the same aircraft (I really can’t be sure) shows a view from the front port quarter. What appears to be battle damage to cowling below and behind exhaust ports and a Polish checkerboard emblem dead-centre of cowling.

Andy= before I commit hours of searching, for my own interest, how do you know that this is a 49MU trailer?