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  • Beermat

VDM spinners on DH hubs

Can anyone help? I am looking for a surviving example, anywhere in the world, of a VDM-type spinner attached to a De Havilland bracket-type prop hub.

The one-off Miles Kestrel definitely had this combination. The DH Albatross and Don possibly did. Oh, and also the Whirlwind.

Bit of history as uncovered in my researches.. in this, when I say spinner ‘design’, I don’t mean ‘profile’ – At the time, that was defined on order by the aircraft manufacturer providing a drawing. Instead I mean the structure of the spinner, how it attaches to the hub, how it provides access to the hub, etc.

The VDM-type design is more familiar as a ‘Rotol’ spinner – often Rotol-hubbed Hurricanes and Spitfires are described as having a ‘Rotol’ spinner – but in fact these were originally manufactured by VDM Spinners Ltd, a spin-off from ‘Constant Speed Airscrews Ltd’ of Warwick set up in 1937 to licence produce the German design.

At first VDM spinners also worked with De Havilland, providing these spinners for their props as well. But relations broke down – very publicly, in the letters page of ‘Flight’. In 1941 the Ministry of Production forcibly replaced VDM / CSA with Joseph Sankey / GKN as subcontractors to de Havilland, for whom they only produced the rival ‘in-house’ DH spinner design, as per the Spitfire.

This left the VDM spinner / DH prop combination as a rare thing, produced in the brief period when the two companies ‘got on’. Unfortunately, it was the arrangement on the Whirlwind (bar one). We are pretty OK on the profile and outer features of our spinners. What would be good would be the inside – what the bits that mate it to a DH prop look like.

Are there any of these still around?

Cheers,

Matt

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By: Beermat - 27th October 2013 at 18:05

Just wanted to say thanks folks for the posts and PMs. Got it all clear now.. thanks to the forum. Jason, that backplate image was very helpful in confirming that DH backplates are very different to CSA / VDM ones on DH hubs.

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By: Beermat - 25th October 2013 at 21:09

I don’t think there were any Spits with the VDM / DH combo.. that’s really what I was getting at. I think the 3 blade dH prop / VDM spinner combo is unique to the Whirlwind, and thus the image in the ad I posted earlier might be of a WW spinner. However, it might be of a DH design that looks externally like the VDM, also manufactured by CSA as subcontractors to DH but not therefore a WW spinner. To establish that either way I was looking for contemporary DH backplates for comparison, and the Spit seemed a good place to start.

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By: oldgit158 - 25th October 2013 at 11:12

Here is a photo of the prop from R6915 which shows a DH prop but not with a VDM spinner, as P9374 is a earlier spec spitfire would it not have been fitted with the same? If not anybody got any idea which Mk 1 spitfires were fitted with VDM spinners and DH props?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]222289[/ATTACH]

Wondering if Tangmere has any photo’s of the spinners type which P7394 has today that he can share.

Regards

John

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By: oldgit158 - 25th October 2013 at 11:00

Ross

I learnt from the best :highly_amused::highly_amused:

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By: QldSpitty - 24th October 2013 at 07:20

I can never be accused of teasing

Hahahaha you hussy :highly_amused::highly_amused::highly_amused:

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By: wieesso - 23rd October 2013 at 16:53

Found this http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1938/1938%20-%200755.html

Martin

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By: Beermat - 23rd October 2013 at 09:58

..this is the best I have of an ‘original’ – Andy S, do you have any better shots of the business end of P9734?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]222247[/ATTACH]

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By: Beermat - 23rd October 2013 at 09:12

Thanks, but not recognising Spitfire stuff? I could be shot for that!

Pics of large diameter DH backplates as per Spitfire are very rare to say the least. I am looking for one to prove that this ISN’T one..

[ATTACH=CONFIG]222244[/ATTACH]

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By: oldgit158 - 22nd October 2013 at 13:49

Well done Beermat..indeed this is a rotol prop as fitted to Spitfire Vb BL628.
I believe the same principal in construction/sizing etc is the same for DH props

Regards

Jason

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By: Beermat - 22nd October 2013 at 13:10

Odd shape.. look like Rotol blades.. Nope, still blank..:confused:

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By: oldgit158 - 22nd October 2013 at 11:32

I can never be accused of teasing 😀
[ATTACH=CONFIG]222202[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]222203[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]222204[/ATTACH]

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By: Beermat - 22nd October 2013 at 11:26

Bump! Oldgit, can you give more info on the backplate(s)? Cheers, Matt

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By: Beermat - 21st October 2013 at 12:44

Backplates of the sort I was referring to – though what sort of diameter are they? Certainly look nice – recent manufacture? Where is the rest? And, most of all – is this for a DH prop??? Come on, don’t tease..

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By: oldgit158 - 20th October 2013 at 23:06

Came across these

[ATTACH=CONFIG]222102[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]222103[/ATTACH]

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By: merlinai159 - 16th October 2013 at 08:30

I’m only a stones throw from MAPS but their opening times can be a bit haphazard, I will pop over a see if anyone is there this weekend.

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By: Snoopy7422 - 15th October 2013 at 14:05

Beermatt – check your PM’s.

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By: Beermat - 15th October 2013 at 10:01

Snoopy, yep – that’s the one 🙂 Please do get in touch! Have PM’d my email addy.

Redvanner – yes, thanks for that – that’s possibly the best reference we found, and what I first learned about them from. Indeed, who knew a spinner could be so complicated?

Chris – I’ll give them a call – unless there’s anyone on here from MAPS? They might be able to help with wheels, as well (have you seen the (too large) tyres that used to be on the Defiant? Could easily be ‘right’ for us..)

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By: Snoopy7422 - 15th October 2013 at 01:15

This is a long shot, because I normally keep away from the big stuff, but is this the type where you insert a key/tool, and there is a slip-ring in the backplate that then releases the spinner….? If so, I might be able to help…:o

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By: merlinai159 - 14th October 2013 at 19:43

Could MAPS help? that’s the guys at Medway who refurbished the Defiant for the RAF Museum.

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