Rolls Royce "R" Engine

Come on where is the rest of the engine stop teasing !!!!!!!

Mike E

www.whirlwindfighterproject.org

Engine was melted and made into a Ford Escort gearbox assembly, subsequently remelted and made into 280 Chinese manufactured toasters….
Just like the latest fad is to trace your ancestry via DNA to some angry Viking or randy Spaniard I wonder if radio carbon dating alloy components within metallurgical analyses will indicate some provenance….I probably have a toaster that was originally Excalibur and part of Baders tin leg !

Brain frying

I also have this firing order plate which I think is RR Vulture?
Can anyone confirm this?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]221595[/ATTACH]

I have reached the limit of my thin competence on this one ! No doubt an X engine, looks very much like a RR Vulture, but someone with a mind that looks like an enlarged, inflatable dinghy growing out of their head will need to confirm the mathematics and engine balance probabilities to back up the punt. Or look in the AP.

This is why I thought the firing order plate might be Perigrine ,because it came with this peregrine plate ,unfortunately the top half that would say Rolls Royce has been cut off.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]221594[/ATTACH]

Come on where is the rest of the engine stop teasing !!!!!!!

Mike E

www.whirlwindfighterproject.org

I also have this firing order plate which I think is RR Vulture?
Can anyone confirm this?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]221595[/ATTACH]

Perigrine

This is why I thought the firing order plate might be Perigrine ,because it came with this peregrine plate ,unfortunately the top half that would say Rolls Royce has been cut off.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]221594[/ATTACH]

Thanks Powerandpassion,thats great.

RR Eagle (1917, planetary reduction gear) propellor RH tractor firing order is 1A,2B,5A,4B,3A,1B,6A,5B,2A,3B,4A,6B

This is the same firing order reproduced on your suspect Peregrine engine plaque, so no doubt, as per previous correspondence, this comes from a RR engine.
I understand the Peregrine was a development of the Kestrel, but also came in RH and LH tractor, to allow contra rotating propellors.

By font and style, the plaque looks “1940’s”, certainly not RR Eagle
So,you no doubt have a Peregrine engine plaque !

Now, where have you put the rest of the engine !?

Firing up

This raises a point that interests me. How many different firing orders ware there for V12s. I know that there are only two common ones for a straight four though other than the most common 1342 I cannot remember the other one.

The following data has been translated from the French “gauche” = B (LH side from pilot’s view), “droit” = A (RHS) from Hispano Suiza manual for
Hispano Suiza 12 X engine (1930’s)
RH Tractor : 1A, 6B, 4A, 3B, 2A, 5B, 6A, 1B, 3A, 4B, 5A, 2B (Same as RR practice)

The following data has been translated assuming “left”= B, right =A from Curtiss manual for
Curtiss D12 engine (late 1920’s)

1B, 6A ,5B ,2A ,3B ,4A ,6B ,1A ,2B ,5A ,4B ,3A (Curtiss D12) refer below
1A, 2B, 5A, 4B, 3A, 1B, 6A, 5B, 2A, 3B, 4A, 6B (RR Eagle, RH tractor)

Which cylinder fires first is immaterial, I guess the British chose 1A at the top of the list while the Americans chose 1B, but ultimately the pattern matches.
So, at least in this random sample, British, French and US engine makers chose the same protocol for firing order, probably limited by the balancing requirements of V12 geometry. If this is right then German DB 600 firing order should be the same ? Achtung ! Was is das gersplutterblitzenorder DB 600, bitte?

In respect of HT leads I have noticed small, numbered bakelite grommets on RR Kestrel and Bristol Jupiter HT leads that would help connect things up the right way. A lot of the simplicity depended on the arrangement of leads or looms from the magneto to the plugs. Old photos show elegant looms while modern practice sometimes looks like a bowl of upturned spaghetti.

Peregrine

Does anyone know the Perigrine firing order?

RR Eagle (1917, planetary reduction gear) propellor RH tractor firing order is 1A,2B,5A,4B,3A,1B,6A,5B,2A,3B,4A,6B

This is the same firing order reproduced on your suspect Peregrine engine plaque, so no doubt, as per previous correspondence, this comes from a RR engine.
I understand the Peregrine was a development of the Kestrel, but also came in RH and LH tractor, to allow contra rotating propellors.

By font and style, the plaque looks “1940’s”, certainly not RR Eagle
So,you no doubt have a Peregrine engine plaque !

Now, where have you put the rest of the engine !?

Does anyone know the Perigrine firing order?

Hi, I have a firing order plate that I think could be from Rolls Royce Perigrine.
Can anyone confirm this?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]221357[/ATTACH]

This raises a point that interests me. How many different firing orders ware there for V12s. I know that there are only two common ones for a straight four though other than the most common 1342 I cannot remember the other one.

Many thanks all, much appreciated!!

Hi,

I can confirm that the firing order for a 1931 ‘R’ was

A1, 6B, 4A, 3B, 2A, 5B, 6A, 1B, 3A, 4B, 5A, 2B

source: RAE report E.D.O. 137 (DSIR 23/5381)

Ciao

Hi all

I would be most grateful if anyone could advise the firing order of the above engine as used on the Supermarine S6 racing aircraft please.

Don’t you just hate it when you take all the HT leads off and then forget how they go back together 😉

Best guess

Hi all

I would be most grateful if anyone could advise the firing order of the above engine as used on the Supermarine S6 racing aircraft please.

Many thanks

Best guess based on Flight Global ( great ,wonderful, generous people for digitizing historical publications free of copyright, thank you !) :

Flight, Oct 2nd 1931, pg 989 – “the Rolls Royce Racing Engines” – description of R Engine in S6, establishing that Buzzard developed from R, photo shows S6 with airscrew shaft with RH tractor after drinking one or two beers, correct me if I am wrong.
Flight, Nov 15th 1934, pg 1222 – “Rolls Royce Ltd” – description of Buzzard, Goshawk, Kestrel family, same family of engines as R was developed from Buzzard.

R featured BTH SC 12 magnetos, same magnetos on Kestrel V, alternatively Watford (Rotax) SP 12 magnetos used, same firing order as BTH (hypothesis, but how could it possibly be different ?)

RR Kestrel Handbook Series XXX October 1939 Fig 1. Diagrammatic layout of Ignition system where –
Starboard (from rear) = A side
Port = B side

and

(op cit) engine is RH tractor

and

Newnes Aero Engineering Vol III Kestrel V maintenance and overhaul :

A1, 6B, 4A, 3B, 2A, 5B, 6A, 1B, 3A, 4B, 5A, 2B

but

RR Eagle & Falcon Engine manual Dec 1917 LH tractor firing order the same, A1, 6B, 4A, 3B, 2A, 5B, 6A, 1B, 3A, 4B, 5A, 2B
(typo, should this be RH tractor or does RR Eagle planetary gear arrangement mean crankshaft RH tractor, airscrew shaft LH tractor?)

and

RR Merlin 32 Running notes 1942, airscrew shaft RH tractor (like S6), crankshaft LH tractor, firing order the same :
A1, 6B, 4A, 3B, 2A, 5B, 6A, 1B, 3A, 4B, 5A, 2B

Therefore hypothesis is that all RR V12 Eagle to Merlin, incl R engine, by virtue of V12 geometry and balance and RR workshop practice are the same.

I note that in (a) collecting this information, (b) worse, knowing where I have filed it (c) being interested in recalling it and going through it to create the above correspondence I have now officially transformed into a propellorhead gunzl-tragic.

Time to lop the cap off another beer.